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View Diary: Tree Climbers: The Freeh Report - Statement by Louis Freeh (264 comments)

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  •  I knew it... (114+ / 0-)
    The evidence shows that these four men also knew about a 1998 criminal investigation of Sandusky relating to suspected sexual misconduct with a young boy in a Penn State football locker room shower.

    "...I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul" Invictus - William Ernest Henley Please donate to TREE Climbers, our 501(c)(3).

    by Roxine on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 06:14:26 AM PDT

    •  Paterno said he DIDN'T know about 1998... (58+ / 0-)

      That's what he told the Grand Jury.  Well, that's a big, fat LIE.

      All we need to know:

      'In order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity, the most powerful leaders at the university - Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley - repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse,'' the report said.
      Emphasis mine.

      Southern Methodist University, I think you're going to have some company pretty soon... #DeathPenalty

      "Give me a lever long enough... and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

      by mconvente on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 06:45:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  PSU (13+ / 0-)

        Agree on the Death Penalty.  But it may not be necessary.  Once all the lawsuits from the victims play out there won't be anything left in Happy Valley but a third tier community college.

        Meet me in Cognito, baby

        by out grrl on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 07:01:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As an alumna, I sincerely hope not... (55+ / 0-)

          What seems to be lost in all of this is that Penn State is a research university, and that the faculty, staff, and students (aside from the morons rioting in the street when Paterno was fired) are all there to do good work and have provided important and authoritative scientific voices on issues like climate change and fracking.  They were just as upset about this as everyone else and don't deserve to see their school destroyed because it's been held hostage so long by athletics.

          I was never a football fan--I attended a single game in my four years there and was underwhelmed--and hated the cult of JoePa.   Rather, I really would like to see the football program terminated, its profits paid out in restitution to the victims, and the University's boosters channeling their energy and resources into research and education instead.  

          •  That could usefully be done (17+ / 0-)

            with all university football programs, in my opinion. They have morphed from being a recreational pastime among students (if their founding mythology has any basis in fact) into destructive distractions existing wholly for their own purposes and having essentially nothing to do with education.

            Moderation in most things.

            by billmosby on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:03:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Their founding mythology did have basis in fact, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Smoh

              My father was the quarterback for his alma mater, while on a pre-med track.  It was just recreational - no money, hardly any official support from the school.  Different times...

              The modern iteration of collegiate sports needs to be burned to the ground.  It has no saving graces whatsoever -  it's a disservice to the schools, the students, the athletes, and even the fans.  Lining the pocketbooks of coaches and boosting the egos of administrators is not sufficient justification for the massive time and money sink they've become.  The incentive they provide to cheat on the academic side cheapens the entire system and legitimatizes dishonesty.  It's disgusting.

              •  Edwin Hubble... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Smoh

                was supposed to play for the Maroons, but his father wouldn't let him because he thought it was too dangerous.  So he broke a bunch of records in track and field and the high jump instead.  And he played basketball, and was an amateur heavyweight boxer.

                Somehow he managed not to lose too many brain cells in that last activity, though, because he went on to discover cosmological redshift and upended a lot of other things we believed about the Universe.  He would have won a Nobel Prize, but the committee didn't consider astronomy to be physics proper.

                Yeah, different times.

          •  The trouble is, (4+ / 0-)

            without the football program, what profits?

            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

            by Loge on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:14:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It might be better to (7+ / 0-)

              recognize the programs for the commercial enterprises they have become and let universities charge them licensing fees for identifying with the university. If the programs don't already own the "intellectual property" themselves already, that is. That way they would be free to become even richer, pay the athletes fairly for their roles as stars, and not bother the athletes with academic requirements. Athletes who would like an education would be able to pay their own ways through school easily under such an arrangement, I hope.

              Moderation in most things.

              by billmosby on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:44:32 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It could be a better system! (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                billmosby, LSophia

                especially for the athletes, but I don't really like the notion of giving up on the amateur ideal just because most oer schools at fail the academic aide and Paterno failed at some very basic decency.  Just saying it seems Quixotic, as the money seems to be the corruption factor.  Still, Paterno's other legacy is using football money to serve the larger university, but that's increasingly rare.  The notion that Bobby Bowden has a smile on his face today infuriates me.

                Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                by Loge on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:53:45 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The amateur ideals should still have plenty of (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  LSophia, FarWestGirl, Oh Mary Oh

                  room, and if the Universities were smart about harvesting funds from their affiliated commercial sports enterprises, maybe the amateur programs could end up better off.

                  The football programs long ago gave up on their own amateur ideals, it seems to me. That's one small part of the reason I stopped going to Michigan (U of M) games in 1968. A more pressing reason was the need to work 30 hours a week in the dorm cafeteria to put myself through school, leaving no time for sports. Remarkably, one could pay out of state tuition and all other costs of attending that institution working 20 to 30 hours a week at $2.25 an hour back then (with a little help from a summer job). Believe it or not.

                  Moderation in most things.

                  by billmosby on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 09:12:25 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Profits are illusory (10+ / 0-)

              Studies have shown that the costs of such programs end up being subsidized by academic programs. Gate receipts are often stated; the cost of building facilities usually remains hidden.

              •  This is true at many programs, (0+ / 0-)

                and for athletic budgets in general, but Penn State football makes or made a lot of money from its operations, separate and apart from the impact on alumni giving, which Paterno largely and almost uniquely among big time coaches, directed to the core mission of the university.  There are reasons for intercollegiate sports that do not make money to exist, as there are for any other student activity that does not make money, but in Penn State's specific case, before Paterno took over, it was a cow and teacher college with little draw outside of central PA, and now it's one of the top 50 research universities in the world (depending on how you measure something so subjective), top 15 undergraduate public universities in the U.S., and, according to Malcolm Gladwell, the top university in the country at achieving social mobility through measuring freshperson household incomes, salaries upon graduation, and dividing by cost and debt load.  There is an explicit connection between the two.  

                So, while Paterno deserves scorn for lying, covering up, and not living up to his own express standards, this is not a cause to indict the notion of a football program in general, and if there is, it requires a more serious discussion of the tradeoff to the academic mission, rather than explaining it away by discussing "such programs."

                Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                by Loge on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 10:55:28 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The Ivies are also top research universities and (6+ / 0-)

                  they made the decision in the 1980's to eschew big time college sports and participate in sports that were truly amateur in nature.  None of the sports programs run the Universities there, which is exactly what happened at Penn State.  It can be done to keep an institution's status as a top research university without professional football.  

                  And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

                  by MrJersey on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 12:18:19 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "A" university can, (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    tully monster

                    and I didn't suggest otherwise.  Penn State probably can, but not without some richer alumni.  None of the Ivies, as well, became prominent because of football, and weren't close to big time by the '80s.  A large, public university should do all of the above, however, in a way that a private university can have a narrower mission.  Northwestern is Big 10; University of Chicago is Division III.  Other than the fact that U of C is superior in every way, they're the same school.  

                     

                    Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                    by Loge on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 12:26:53 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  They need a Robert Maynard Hutchins (9+ / 0-)

              He removed the University of Chicago from the Big Ten and got rid of the football program because he considered it a distraction to learning (who knew?!?).  And he was a major force against the anti-intellectual vocational trend that business interests were pushing to take over universities.  Yeah, the university had some financially lean years, but they've recovered, and (in my humble opinion) now they probably have a student body that's harder-working and more disciplined than Harvard's.  

              Great Wikipedia writeup of Hutchins here.

              •  I'm a U of C alum (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Avilyn

                so i know who he is.  The anti-business view is less prevalent than before, at least since Friedman, Coase, and Director.  

                what works for a private school built on Rockefeller money might not work for a public one.  Surely Penn State is at a point where it can exist without a top football team (as a lot of top public research universities have lousy ones), but the challenge of having both is harder and appropriate for a large school.  

                Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                by Loge on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 12:17:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Universities are more savvy about patents now... (0+ / 0-)

                  Ours missed out on a couple of really big ones back in the 1990s, or so I've been told.  But now there are a lot of University/private sector partnerships and a number of technology incubators and spinoff companies around here, and an entire huge administrative unit devoted to making sure it doesn't happen again.  Of course, private/public partnerships have their own set of thorny issues and implications, but it could make up for at least some loss of sports revenue.

                  •  you realize that every school (0+ / 0-)

                    generates patent revenue on pretty much the same scale, with Stanford a possible exception for its proximity to venture capital.  If you want Penn State to make a lot of money this way, the best course of action would be to reinstate Graham Spanier.

                    This is only a football scandal because it's a money scandal.  If the chair of, say, Johns Hopkins's biology department found out that a star cancer researcher was diddling kids, whether or not he went to the authorities might depend on his character, sure, but in reality on how much money that made for the college in pharmaceutical licenses.  Using this story to dredge up or confirm biases against football is opportunistic, and moot.  Going forward, Penn State can either do it well or poorly, off the field and on.  But it's the type of university that has intercollegiate sports, if for nothing else as advertising, and as an occasional, welcome distraction for working class people in central PA.  Like Purdue, like Illinois, like Tennessee, like Oregon.

                     

                    Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                    by Loge on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 12:43:31 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Loge, I have refrained from replying to your (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      tully monster

                      but I must ask you - what are you trying to say here?

                      If the chair of, say, Johns Hopkins's biology department found out that a star cancer researcher was diddling kids, whether or not he went to the authorities might depend on his character, sure, but in reality on how much money that made for the college in pharmaceutical licenses.
                       

                      First, please do not trivialize the rape of children as "diddling kids."

                      Definition of DIDDLE

                      transitive verb
                      1
                      chiefly dialect : to move with short rapid motions
                      2
                      : to waste (as time) in trifling
                      3
                      : hoax, swindle
                      4
                      often vulgar : to copulate with

                      If you're implying the fourth definition above with your choice of words, please understand that there was no "with" involved - these boys were raped, sodomized ni some instances, forced to perform oral sex on Jerry Sandusky.  Your word choice is insulting, and quite frankly, sickening that you would refer to what has happened here, what has been proven in a court of law with such flippancy.

                      Second, in all of your posts you have not once recognized the victims in this - the 10, 11, 12, 13 year old boys who were sexually abused for years.  Do you have any compassion, any understanding of what went on here?  Do you have any idea what these boys will suffer with - for the rest of their lives?

                      Third - To insinuate that the moral and legal obligation to report child sexual abuse is somehow intertwined with how much money they or their department brings into a university is, frankly, beyond comprehension for me.

                      "...I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul" Invictus - William Ernest Henley Please donate to TREE Climbers, our 501(c)(3).

                      by Roxine on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 03:44:33 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  It was a poor choice of words, (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Roxine

                        But to suggest that I used it to imply consent is beyond ridiculous.  

                        To point two, I have expressed sympathy, actually, maybe not in this thread, but I have nothing unique to add on that score.  Freeh was hired by the Penn State trustees to investigate what happened and how best for the institution to ensure nothing like that happens again.  My comments were directed at that.  And as the focus was on what Penn State should do, arguing that only people who take certain positions or use certain phrases care about kids is emotional blackmail.  (Hence the disingenuousness of your above comment.)  I wouldn't assume people didn't care about the kids involved unless there is a specific statement to that effect (and you can find that among some of the folks who said Paterno shouldn't have been fired -- but i agree he had to be, and had he lived, based on these findings, charged with perjury and obstruction).  And the notion that people who argue for the greatest root and branch upheaval, the longest prison sentences, and the greatest dollar figure restitution figures, by virtue of those positions, care the most about the victims is facile and, frankly, cheap.  I imagine they have a variety of opinions on this topic, themselves, probably conflicting ones.  Even to the actual topic of the Freeh report, seeking maximum isn't even the best way to ensure that it doesn't happen again, not to mention that the victims aren't the only people with a stake in the future of a large land grant university.

                        To the third point, I agree with you as to what the right thing to do is, morally and legally, and I didn't suggest anything to the contrary.  In fact, i said whther people report something is a test of their character no matter what the incentives are for not doing so.  If that wasn't sufficiently clear to you, I hope it is now.  But if you have a better reason than money for why people often do the wrong things, in this and other contexts, I'd be happy to hear it.  Indeed, the final 60% of the Report assumes the proposition that individual character is not going to be reliable enough.

                        This can mean either that the football program can never be salvaged because it makes money and will therefore always be too powerful and self-interested (as some have indeed argued), or it can mean that it can be salvaged by institutional changes (as is my position and apparently Louis Freeh's).  A third position would be that the football program should be shut down as retribution, with which I do not agree as it applies collective guilt to people lacking in individual culpability.  A fourth position is that college football should go for reasons independent of this.  I was addressing a combination of arguments one and four.  

                        Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                        by Loge on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 06:45:42 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I reacted poorly and I apologize. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Loge

                           I misinterpreted completely your statement concerning reporting and money and I appreciate you further explaining the meaning behind your comment.

                          "...I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul" Invictus - William Ernest Henley Please donate to TREE Climbers, our 501(c)(3).

                          by Roxine on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 07:08:26 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  yikes (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Roxine

                        Roxine, I just want to make sure you and anyone else following this particular thread understand that I (along with many other alumni like me) am absolutely appalled and devastated that the administration officials at my alma mater could have conspired to cover up such a horrible thing, or that it could have happened at all (with their indirect assistance, ugh).  

                        What's going to happen to the university is, of course, secondary to the suffering of those poor kids and their families, and if Penn State ends up bankrupted by lawsuits, so be it.  But I will be grieving that the school that gave me a good education was destroyed by decisions that were not only grossly immoral, but STUPID.  I was worried when I made my first comment that it could be construed in a way I did not intend, and I'm sorry to have not made myself clearer if that were the case.

                        I don't think this way, and neither, I'm sure, does Loge, but I think he was merely acknowledging that there are sociopaths at every level of society, and surely in powerful positions in academia, who do put money and organizations above people, including children.  However, even if top Penn State officials cared more about the reputation of the school than the welfare of those children, weathering the storm of reporting, firing, and seeing Sandusky investigated, prosecuted, and put away in 1998 would have been preferable to this, and the University's position would have been strengthened.  Surely anyone with half a brain could have seen that this kind of crime would only blow up years from now and would therefore make efforts to defuse it before hand.  All I can say is that they must not have been thinking rationally.

                        And Loge, I was never implying that I thought intercollegiate sports should be eliminated altogether.  I went to Penn State, and I now work at Illinois, and believe me, there is no Joe Paterno figure here, and this scandal has pretty much ensured that there never could be.  (We just got notice of a new University-wide policy emphasizing that state regulations regarding the abuse of minors sure the hell do apply to us.)

                        I'm guessing this is probably also true at other Big Ten universities. The closest thing we had was the whole cult of Chief Illiniwek, and thanks to our active, vocal, and well-informed faculty and students (and many administrators who were on the same page), bolstered by pressures from the NCAA, the Chief is no longer the University's mascot, and all the bizarre "traditions" surrounding him have been eliminated. While fanatical pockets of support and apologetics for this racist stereotype still exist in our community and make themselves heard occasionally, they are dwindling and will eventually disappear.  Nowhere else would a football coach EVER have such power over a university administration, and now no football coach ever will.  I suppose if any small good thing could come out of this horrifying mess, that would be it.

                        •  that should be (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Roxine

                          "state regulations regarding reporting the abuse of minors"

                        •  Thanks tully monster. I admit my bias is for (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          tully monster

                          the children, and I also admit that I over-reacted to Loge's comment (and apologized above).

                          I think it was seeing a few words in the same post that triggered me.  

                          I do try to remain objective, but because of my history with child sexual abuse and cover-up I also recognize my inherent bias and propensity to be over-sensitive.

                          I am so sorry that you were betrayed  by those who should have protected you - the administrators and Board of Trustees of Penn State.  They have let everyone down - the victims, the students, staff, faculty, alumni - community - there are so many who have been devastated by their failures.

                          I am pleased to hear about the new policies being implemented to further protect the most innocent in our society.  That is the best thing to come out of this whole disgusting mess.

                          "...I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul" Invictus - William Ernest Henley Please donate to TREE Climbers, our 501(c)(3).

                          by Roxine on Sat Jul 14, 2012 at 09:10:43 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

          •  Agree (0+ / 0-)

            As I say below, I agree that it will be a loss if the lawsuits happen.  But I just don't see how the academic programs will come away unscathed short of the victims agreeing to some kind of focused deal.  

            Meet me in Cognito, baby

            by out grrl on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 10:03:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I would hope not. (21+ / 0-)

          Pennsylvanians deserve a top notch university-- one that focuses on education not football, which has nothing to do with providing a quality academic environment for learning and research.

          If the football program is hobbled or dissolved, I'd be very pleased and say it would be a fitting punishment for so mis-using and abusing the university.

          •  Dissolving the football program might be the best (9+ / 0-)

            outcome.  We'll see what happens.

          •  A lot of research will be effected (12+ / 0-)

            There are a number of large collaborative efforts undertaken between institutions.  It was a founding principle of the Big Ten, and the main reason the University of Chicago is still a member institution.  It is unlikely that the academic reputation of Penn State will suffer over the long term, but any repercussions will be felt across the B1G, and likely even wider.

            My defense of Joe Paterno ends today; the Freeh report lays bare what many were willing to assume, but what had previously not been factually established; that the coach knew what was happening, and not only failed in his capacity as a mandatory reporter, but actively assisted in a cover-up.  The true irony is that the actions undertaken by JoePa, in attempting to protect the reputations of the program and university, ultimately have damaged both, far more than the right and proper course of action ever could.

            Hopefully, this will help to strengthen all academic research and learning, in the long run, and that moving forward, steps can be taken to recognize the place of college athletics in society, and redirect efforts toward larger concerns.  Unfortunately, that will be a long and painful journey.

            1. Corporations control our democracy and do not have our interests at heart;
            2. The media is not neutral -- and not blameless;
            3. Ordinary people have extraordinary power.

            by MooseHB on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 09:30:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Agree (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Avilyn, Heart of the Rockies

            Oh, I agree that it will be a blow to education in Pennsylvania.  I don't celebrate what I think will be the end of an institution that has been educating and doing research at a high level.  I was making more of a statement of fact.  PSU will be extremely lucky to survive with all of their academic programs intact and that is a shame.  It may well come down to how much forgiveness - if any - the victims can muster.  I can't say I would begrudge them the desire to extract every drop.

            Meet me in Cognito, baby

            by out grrl on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 09:34:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Sandusky was being groomed (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mannie, Avilyn, zett, madgranny, LSophia

          as Paterno's heir -- till he suddenly stepped down. And why didn't he take any other job? Was it because his activities were an open secret? Or because he didn't want to start over from scratch in finding a source of victims?

          "If we ever needed to vote we sure do need to vote now" -- Rev. William Barber, NAACP

          by Cali Scribe on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:21:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Directly contradicted by the report (p.56) (5+ / 0-)

          The general belief that Joe knows all was confirmed, but the dates of Sandusky's passing over don't quite line up.  He was out before the incident.  

          It is clear Paterno lied to the grand jury, but we already knew enough to say that he should have been fired.  The interesting findings were Paterno's role in the 2001 investigation and his knowledge of the 1998 report, but even there, it turns out it wasn't directly correlated with the decision to retire, but did affect the terms of it and whether they were reasonable.  

          Everything else is still opinion.  Doesn't wears the good things Paterno did before, over and above contributions to football, and while he apparently could have faced criminal penalties, that's kind of moot, as he's dead, and the fact is, he should have retired after the 1995 season.

          Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

          by Loge on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:28:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Nope . . . (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mightymouse, MrJersey

            It was the 1998 incident, not the 2001 incident, that led to his retirement. The timing is perfect.

            •  Nope again (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Glacial Erratic, LSophia

              February 9 -- Curley e-mails Spanier and Shultz, sating in the e-mail that "Joe [Paterno] tells me he made it clear to Jerry he will not be the next head coach."

              While there were reports that later surfaced of assaults going back to 1995 that were unreported at the time (pp.40-41) and  which Paterno may have nevertheless known about, the incident that was investigated, not charged, and about which Paterno specifically denied having knowledge, was on May 3, 1998.  (I assume Schultz was on this e-mail in his capacity as VP for Finance and Business, as they discussed severance payments and changes to Sandusky's job title, and not as supervisor of the Univ. police.)  Assuming this is the 1998 incident, you didn't do your homework.  If I cite a page number, try reading that page.

              Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

              by Loge on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 10:43:58 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Did you read the report on Paterno's (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ladelfina

                handwritten letter at the bottom of pp 57?

                There is not enough clear evidence of what was in the minds of JP and those who arranged Sandusky's retirement contract for an official investigative committee to say what many of us find possible and probable.

                That kind of intuitive thinking is what should have driven Paterno, or anyone in this kind of situation, to make a stronger attempt to be sure a perp is not left in a position to continue abusing children. After the early '80's scandals on sex abuse of children in preschool programs, we started teaching kids about the 'uh oh' feeling. Even grown up kids get the uh oh feeling.

                I haven't read Lolita, the fact that Paterno explained

                “Some people thought it was a dirty book,” ... “I thought it was insight to somebody with a problem."
                suggests his insight was personal and weighted more to empathy than justice. Colored with fear.

                "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

                by Ginny in CO on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 11:23:15 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Entirely possible, (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Ginny in CO, Glacial Erratic

                  but the commentary on the retirement was that it was "sudden" and speculation was that some incident precipitated it.  Obviously, the sooner Paterno knew, the worse it is for him, but the report also says that Paterno learned of the 1998 incident from Curley, who learned it from Schultz, and that Schultz's initial notes based on conversations with university police had it labeled not criminal.  There was nothing equivalent in this incident to McQueary's testimony that he told Paterno the contact was explicitly sexual.  It's salience seems to be for how the 2001 incident was handled, not that it was a cause of
                  his departure.  Even though he didn't yet formally retire, his position was untenable once he knew he wouldn't be the next coach, which decision was made before any direct reports of misconduct, even if the first report in 1998 had been watered down each step along the reporting path.  

                  Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                  by Loge on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 12:12:49 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I am actually impressed with Freeh's (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Loge

                    report given how much Clarke reamed his performance as FBI director in Against All Enemies. He clearly indicated it was because Freeh had essentially been promoted to a very high administrative position when his expertise was in hands on investigation process.

                    What is probably not as clear to others as to someone with an extra BS degree in sociology, is the differentiation of the function of justice from societal mores. Justice has to be very precise, with care not to charge or convict a citizen with insufficient evidence. Seems to me some of the concern over how an investigation into Sandusky wasn't necessary had to do with thinking they could establish that degree of factual evidence and/or not trusting the investigators to do a good job. While the Freeh report is not an official government investigation, it easily serves as an equivalent, especially given what at first quick read, is very well done.

                    OTOH, society, especially in the court of public opinion, can go into the gray areas of behavior that are not yet addressed by law, if they should be. Feedback to universities, schools, support for victims, etc. all promote the message that enabling behavior is no more acceptable than the crime itself and can result in backlash as hard as a criminal sentence. Like all things human, it can be good, or bad

                    Had the people around Jerry been more willing to ask authorities to investigate, and not interfere with it, there would be no questions on his retirement contract.

                    "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

                    by Ginny in CO on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 12:49:19 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Report says not so (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glacial Erratic, Ginny in CO

          Even though it is a scathing report, the report states that Sandusky did not retire in 1999 due to PSU knowing he sexually abused children.

          Don't get me wrong, the report says PSU higher ups "concealed" it, but Sandusky retiring at that time I guess was just coincidence.

          "Give me a lever long enough... and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

          by mconvente on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:43:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Freeh's press conference this morning: (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mconvente, Glacial Erratic

            Replied they found no correlation to Sandusky's 1999 retirement and $, and the knowledge of Sandusky's sexual abuse of children.

            Thus, IMHO:  
            It seems that the sexual abuse of children was definitely inconsequential to these powers.
            byrnt

      •  Conclusion doesn't follow premise (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mannie, Glacial Erratic

        The dea penalty is really the "repeat violators" penalty, and other than the fact that it involved a retired coach, I don't see this as athletics-related so outside the NCAA jurisdiction.

        The fact that the football program raises money for the school and at Penn St., at least, the players mostly graduate, I'm not sure what ongoing, future problem that would solve.  SMU was supposed to be a deterrent to other programs, but no other college has a coach who is more powerful than the university president anymore and none of the top coaches are university lifers who'd feel the desire to protect the reputations, as they're all mercenaries.

        Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

        by Loge on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:19:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So if someone had been (16+ / 0-)

          dealing drugs out of the PSU locker room, or running a prostitution ring, and it was known by the Administration but was covered up (whether to protect the reputation or because they were getting a cut of the profits) that would also be outside the NCAA jurisdiction? If Ohio State can get a bowl ban merely for having a few players trade autographs for tattoos, there has to be serious penalties for actual criminal activity.

          "If we ever needed to vote we sure do need to vote now" -- Rev. William Barber, NAACP

          by Cali Scribe on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:23:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  All of those examples (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            white blitz, Catte Nappe

            would involve the students directly.  It's not one being better or worse, it's a question of whether it's itin the category of misconduct the NCAA exists to police.  Treating this as an athletic scandal is probably the worst thing that Penn State did, as it gave the intellectual justification to "let coach handle it.".

            One player at Baylor basketball killed another one, and the coach covered up financial delings with the victim, once the authorities started looking into what happened.  The right people got fired and indicted and the school moved on, winning more after 10 years than the did before.  There were sanctions, but more related to the coach's paying money to the victim and attempting to tell active players to lie about it (in addition to drug use the coach knew of and thus failed in his mission as a physical education professor).  The NCAA didn't get into the murder aspects. Im more sympathetic to Penn state's educational mission than Baylor's, but Britney Greiner and Robert Griffin III are great athletes who deserve every opportunity they got from that wingnut school.

            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

            by Loge on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 09:06:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  This. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              white blitz, Catte Nappe, Loge

              To my knowledge, the NCAA exists solely to preserve the illusion that college athletes are a) amateurs and b) students first. (I live in Alabama so pardon my cynicism.)

              It's not that the NCAA considers paying players or cheating on an exam "worse than" violent crime. Rather, the NCAA simply is not the all-purpose, all-sovereign ethics watchdog that people are claiming it is. It's purpose is to define and enforce amateur student-athlete status.

              I think the NCAA would like to find a reason to impose sanctions. But they don't get to enforce a rule that doesn't exist.  Whether sanctions can actually be imposed in this case depends on whether there is a stipulation somewhere in the by-laws that they can go outside the bounds of academic integrity and amateur status matters.

              The by-laws are a gigantic document I don't have time to peruse. Also, the Penn State and Syracuse  accusations are the first I can recall that have involved pedophilia. But I do know that many athletes (and some coaches) over the years have been accused of sexual harassment and violence against adults -- generally female students or athletic department employees. At some of the big-name football schools, I would say it's a pattern and practice that athletes get away with rape.

              However, the NCAA has never to my knowledge concerned itself with handling of these criminal matters. Maybe if an athlete obtained free legal representation from a booster (or the booster paid the athlete's lawyer), there would be an NCAA violation.

              Just because you're not a drummer doesn't mean that you don't have to keep time. -- T. Monk

              by susanala on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 10:10:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  most contacts with an agent (0+ / 0-)

                constitute "receiving legal representation," in a civil matter (assuming the agent or someone working for the agent is a lawyer), and it's well within the NCAA"s power to regulate.  

                Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                by Loge on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 10:46:54 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Added Jerry Sandusky to the tags (11+ / 0-)

      This asshole should rot in prison for the rest of his miserable life.

      If you play Microsoft CD's backwards, you hear satanic things, but that's nothing, because if you play them forwards, they install Windows.

      by Unit Zero on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 07:18:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That paragraph is the smoking gun (23+ / 0-)

      Put right into Paterno's, Curley's Schultz' and Spanier's hands.

      No matter what his family or anyone at Penn State says, Paterno was NOT one of Sandusky's victims, he was one of his accomplices.

    •  What brings me to tears.... (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      white blitz, Avilyn, zett, madgranny, jerseyjo

      ...remembering why we never spoke when we were hurt... why we went unheard even if we had told.... because even after all of this, there are people who still defend those who are already strong at the expense of those of us who were weak.  Excuses for evil while anger and disdain remain against innocence.  Those who spoke out are the bad ones while those who were told still remain heroes.  

       But then I remember that the past is past.  I recall those brave ones that precede me on this journey have given me strength, not only for myself, but also that I may impart that strength to those follow me.  Thank you.

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