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View Diary: Obama's honest and accurate self critique (181 comments)

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  •  Get back to me around June 2013. *Then*... (17+ / 0-)

    ..we'll know it that's what we're getting.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 07:58:16 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Kind of sad that (7+ / 0-)

      we don't know what we're getting already.

      The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

      by dfarrah on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:12:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I do (7+ / 0-)

        And given that I don't see anyone who'd be doing any better, I'm more than satisfied.

        Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

        by NLinStPaul on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:19:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Of course, not the candidate actually... (11+ / 0-)

          ..running against President Obama, not any of the other Republicans who were running, not any Republican at all is worth thinking about as being better. I mean, the thought gags me.

          And there is no doubt in my mind that Obama has done both some good things and some very good things during his first term.

          But that's not the issue. One of the things I keep seeing here at Daily Kos are people saying that Obama will be different, stronger, in his second term. More like "himself" is the implication, more directed, without the pressure of reelection concerns.

          If, by being himself is meant more like Campaign Obama, then I say hallelujah. That is what my comment was about. It wasn't a gratuitous trashing of him (I don't do that even in my most critical moments) but merely expressive of a desire to see more in governance of what, as BBB has pointed out, we have seen in campaigning since September. That's why I said June 2013. Because by then we'll know if there has been a true melding of Campaign Obama with Governing Obama or we back to pre-September approaches.

          And, yes, I know that, even in a second term, Governing can't be exactly like Campaigning. But we surely can have something closer on that score than we have had.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 09:24:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  i expect he will be a stronger, more liberal prez (5+ / 0-)

            in his second term because he'll be contending with a hell of a lot more direct action from the left. occupy has sunk back under the radar because of the electoral focus in an election year, but they are not going to pull a 2009 and wait for him to deliver on campaign promises. they're going to be more like the dream act organizers, and make him uncomfortable.

            eventually, we should also see the ongoing demographic/ideological shift start to emerge in state and congressional politics as well, which could pressure him in legislative ways.

          •  I'm not one of those (2+ / 0-)

            who thinks that winning a second term will somehow free up a different Obama. As a matter of fact, I think that's the same kind of projection onto him that we saw in 2008 that left so many folks disappointed. The folks who say that are going to be just as disappointed in 2013.

            What I do expect is that he will continue to learn and adapt to the situation with which he's presented - just as we saw him do from his first two years into his second after the 2010 election.

            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

            by NLinStPaul on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 05:44:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The people making this "more himself"... (0+ / 0-)

              ...hopeful prediction are not the same as those you reference from 2008.

              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 01:27:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I didn't suggest (0+ / 0-)

                they were the same people - simply that they would experience the same disappointment anyone feels when they pretend to hear what they want to hear.

                Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                by NLinStPaul on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 07:35:17 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  We actually know exactly what we'll have - if (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Heart of the Rockies

      we've been paying attention.

      Get back to me around June 2013. Then...we'll know it that's what we're getting.


      I had a pretty good idea in 1996, when he ran for the Illinois Senate. I knew for certain in 2004, when he ran for the U.S. Senate. Any Democratic activist who did his or her homework knew the same thing I knew; the information which I accessed was and is publicly and readily available.

      Now is not the time to share my insights; we have an election to win. I won't even disclose whether I agree or disagree with BBB and BHO about the latter's biggest mistake. Post election is the time to have that discussion, and I intend to bring the subject up in 11/2012. 06/2013 is way too late for that conversation. For right now, any not-Romney is enough to motivate me to work hard, and should be enough for any thinking kossak.

      Thanks to already-built-in anthropogenic climate change, our planet will only be able to sustain half a billion humans in 2100 AD. Human population will probably reach 9 billion in 2050 AD. Will your descendants be among the 'lucky' one-in-eighteen?

      by davidincleveland on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 12:59:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i love it when Very Astute People have secret (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ILDem

        Insight that can't be shared until later because, well, it is so insightful that to share it now would tilt the world off it's axis.

        I wait with bated breath. Or maybe not. ;-)

        •  You haven't been here long enough to award (0+ / 0-)

          pejorative titles to other kossaks and get away with it. You will never be here long enough to get away with lying about what I said. You joined 17 months ago; long enough for you to have read this site's FAQ. You therefore should know that calling out other kossaks with insulting language in the title of your comment is forbidden here.

          You lied when you accused me of implying that my insights were secret. I specifically said they were available to anyone who studied the subject.

          You lied when you said I wouldn't share my insights now because they would change the world. I specifically said I wouldn't share them because we are in the middle of an election campaign.

          Perhaps your attempted insult and your lies were non-malicious in intent. You can demonstrate your absense of malice toward me by apologizing (in this same thread) for your bad behavior, within 24 hours. Failure to apologize will confirm my suspicion that your intent was malicious and denigrating shit-stirring, and I will report you to site admin. I have zero tolerance for relative newcomers who attempt to start flame wars here, so the choice is yours; apologize or be reported.

          I have awarded you a hide rate for your violation of two site rules (insulting another kossak in the title of your comment, and deliberate substantive misrepresentation of what another kossak wrote. Your apology will cause me to remove the hide rate, as well as keeping you unreported.

          Thanks to already-built-in anthropogenic climate change, our planet will only be able to sustain half a billion humans in 2100 AD. Human population will probably reach 9 billion in 2050 AD. Will your descendants be among the 'lucky' one-in-eighteen?

          by davidincleveland on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 07:24:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  wow... That was a pretty rough response to (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ILDem

            A pretty benign commentary.  Skipping all the accusations, on the one hand, you say that all the info related to your insights is publicly available, and yet you also say you have some insight, which I have to assume is unique in some way, otherwise why not share now.  Just leaves me wondering what those insights are.  I certainly didn't mean to get you so wadded up, but as to the HR, do what you want.  I'd be quite happy to have an offline conversation with any admin you'd want to have reach out to me and let him or her sort out what to do.

            Now, can we get back to re-electing Obama and adding some D seats to the house?

          •  David, I will report you to the site admin (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ILDem, highacidity

            if you don't remove your HR to the person who is directly engaging you, which is against the FAQ.

            •  As usual, you are mistaken. You wrote this: (0+ / 0-)
              ...your HR to the person who is directly engaging you, which is against the FAQ.
              That has never been a FAQ rule, merely a strong recommendation. In recent months Kos has tightened how he regards flying HRs between ongoing adversarial kossaks. Denver11 and I aren't having an ongoing fight. In fact, I've already taken his response to me and to Heart of the Rockies as an explanatory apology, have said so, and have removed my HR as I promised I would.

              Except in one's own diary, there has never been any rule against defending oneself against an insulting and lying attack -as long as it's a one-shot HR.
              But please, please, please do this:
              David, I will report you to the site admin...
              I suspect they're all just dying to hear from you -yet again. While you're at it and since you seem to have misunderstood what you read in the site's FAQ, you may want to ask for a clarification of the HR rules and recommendations.

              Thanks to already-built-in anthropogenic climate change, our planet will only be able to sustain half a billion humans in 2100 AD. Human population will probably reach 9 billion in 2050 AD. Will your descendants be among the 'lucky' one-in-eighteen?

              by davidincleveland on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 10:24:35 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  HR'd for justification of FAQ violation. nt (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ILDem
          •  HR removed. (0+ / 0-)

            Though from someone who likes to point out "how long they've been here", you'd think you'd know better.

            •  You either can't or won't resist the urge to act (0+ / 0-)

              in an inflammatory manner, even when you have to make up stuff about the kossaks you attack. Find an instance where I do this about myself,

              someone who likes to point out "how long they've been here",
              or be de facto exposed (again) as someone who makes up shit to score points. My HR of Denver11's comment was entirely legitimate. It was legitimate not due to my enrollment date but according to the FAQ. I read the FAQ before I even signed up at this site, during the month I lurked. I understood what I read.

              If you have actually read the FAQ, you certainly haven't understood them; I choose to believe it is incomprehension that you exhibit, rather than malice. I could be mistaken in my belief about your true motives, but I am not mistaken about the FACT that you misinterpret and misquote them.

              Thanks to already-built-in anthropogenic climate change, our planet will only be able to sustain half a billion humans in 2100 AD. Human population will probably reach 9 billion in 2050 AD. Will your descendants be among the 'lucky' one-in-eighteen?

              by davidincleveland on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 11:08:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  I think you missed his point. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Denver11, davidincleveland

          He didn't want to derail the diary, a sentiment I support.

          As he said, for those who were looking for a more nuanced understanding of Obama in the months and years leading up to his election, there was material available.  Beginning, but not ending, with a long piece in The New Yorker magazine.

          •  I understand all that... I just figure that (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ILDem

            Insights are worth sharing, that's all.

            •  Insights which can be readily misconstrued by (0+ / 0-)

              activists who are working toward my goals (re-electing the POTUS and electing more and better Democratic representatives in November 2012) are emphatically NOT worth sharing in the middle of an election campaign. There has been far too much of that kind of divisive behavior on this site in the past few years.

              My original comment to Meteor Blades referenced a diary I began writing over two years ago, and which I promised (MB, and Lawrence Lewis, and others) I would not publish before the day after election day 2012. At that time it will be worth a discussion. Right now, it would only get in our way: Anything which serves mainly to scrape the nerves of allies should be avoided before the second week in November.

              Having read your response to me and (more importantly) your response to Heart of the Rockies, I'm satisfied your intent wasn't malicious shit-stirring, and I'm withdrawing my hide rate of your comment. I'm also not going to trouble the admins on this issue; they are kept busy enough by kossaks who like to throw verbal acid (see the link above) and then complain to them about the backsplash.

              Thanks to already-built-in anthropogenic climate change, our planet will only be able to sustain half a billion humans in 2100 AD. Human population will probably reach 9 billion in 2050 AD. Will your descendants be among the 'lucky' one-in-eighteen?

              by davidincleveland on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 09:56:20 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Heart of the Rockies:Question re New Yorker (0+ / 0-)

            Do you have a link or a month?  Lots of hits on the google and would like to read the one you have in mind. Thanks

            And re The Rockies .. Gonna be doing mountain road riding this weekend, but plan to stay clear of Triple Bypass route

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