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View Diary: This week in the War on Women: Wanna hear a joke? You should be raped! Hahaha! (322 comments)

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  •  The club owner contradicts the woman's story (7+ / 0-)

    Here's the thing about this whole situation.

    The owner of the club where this happened was there and has a very different version of what Tosh actually said and what happened in the audience and what the woman involved said and did.

    I'm having a hard time taking it at face value now. Everyone jumped on the woman's version of events, which I can appreciate -- but like with anything else, it's not the ONLY side.

    If we have to admit that some comedian tells a "good" rape joke (whatever the hell that means), I find it hard to jump on Tosh here when it's not even clear if the woman complaining is giving the correct version of events.

    •  club details (4+ / 0-)

      The version I've been hearing was more like...

      Tosh asks "What should I talk about"

      Audience guy says "rape!"

      Woman involved says "rape jokes are never funny!"

      Tosh says "well, there'a woman that must have been raped by 5 guys"

      According to the owner of the club, that's all that happened there. He says she didn't storm out and that she was there for the remainder of the show and only complained afterward.

      That's notably different to me if we're going to give the caveat that "some" rape jokes are "acceptable" or "funny".

      That's nowhere near Tosh screaming out, "hey rape this girl guys HAHAHA"

      •  As I said above, Tosh is not the point. (11+ / 0-)

        The point is a larger discussion about rape culture, which we could have without discussing Tosh at all.

        However ...

        The club owner has a clear interest in protecting his business—which, presumably, includes fending off a reputation for hosting comedians who attack audience members in such a disgusting manner.

        What, exactly, does the woman have to gain from this? What is her agenda?

        The irony here, the very sad irony, is that even in a discussion about rape culture, the victim is being questioned and denigrated and blamed for her own attack. Why didn't she go to the club management sooner? What was she doing there? Did she say no and stop in just the right way? And besides, she interrupted him, so she was asking for it.

        Yeah. Very ironic indeed.

        •  I don't get how any of it is acceptable then (0+ / 0-)

          I just don't understand a situation where we act concerned about rape being funny in ANY situation, and then turn around and say there's good ways to make rape jokes.

          If we're going to say in certain contexts the jokes about this are acceptable, then it seems to me that actually knowing the full context of this joke is actually important.

          I don't get how that can go two ways whatsoever.

          Perhaps in situations where the person being made fun of is the perpetrator and not the victim, but that's not true of all of the examples people are pulling up on sites right now about "OK" rape jokes.

          As for what her agenda might be, I have no idea. I'm no rape apologist. I'd never make a rape joke. I can't pretend to understand her angle on it and I'm not sure how anyone else can assume to either.

          •  I'll repeat: (7+ / 0-)
            But the best comics use their art to call bullshit on those terrible parts of life and make them better, not worse.
            If you're confused, I really do encourage you to check out Kate Harding's 15 examples. The distinction is making a joke about a difficult issue (rape, racism, the Holocaust, what have you) that puts the issue under the microscope and uses humor to illustrate what the problem really is, what it's about, how our society deals (or doesn't deal) with it, etc. Making a joke about the victim, making a joke that perpetuates rather than challenges the issue ... that is the distinction. Calling bullshit on something to make a truthful point can be productive and funny. Perpetuating the bullshit? Not so much.
        •  Ain't this the truth (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kinak, LSophia, historys mysteries
          The irony here, the very sad irony, is that even in a discussion about rape culture, the victim is being questioned and denigrated and blamed for her own attack. Why didn't she go to the club management sooner? What was she doing there? Did she say no and stop in just the right way? And besides, she interrupted him, so she was asking for it.
          Obviously she should have just laid back and enjoyed it
    •  No conflict of interest there, no sirree. (6+ / 0-)
      The club owner contradicts the woman's story
      It's predictable that in a rape prone culture a woman who objects publicly to really offensive rape jokes is going to have her veracity questioned. See how that works?
    •  Of course he does (0+ / 0-)

      his business is at stake- what woman would go into his business if she thought she was going to be subjected to a verbal assault.

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