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View Diary: This week in the War on Women: Wanna hear a joke? You should be raped! Hahaha! (322 comments)

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  •  Who is talking about censoring Tosh? (3+ / 0-)

    Not a single poster here has suggested that the government censor him for his words. Even if we wanted to, the First Amendment wouldn't all for it. Repeat with me: freedom of speech does not equal freedom from criticism.

    •  Exactly. I won't silence AHs but I won't be forced (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell

      to listen to them. Geesh, sounds like freedom of religion issue meaning to some that you have to listen to them spread thier gospel even if it nauseates you and makes you want to add them to a list of never deal with the jerk ever again.

      How can you tell when Rmoney is lying? His lips are moving. Fear is the Mind Killer

      by boophus on Sat Jul 14, 2012 at 12:39:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm talking about respect for freedom of speech (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      No Exit, Americantrueandblue

      You'll note that I didn't say "censoring" either.

      Basically, we on the Left look like hypocrites every time we get all loaded up and righteous when someone says something that offends us - while we laugh and celebrate every time someone says something that offends the Right that we agree with.

      I'm arguing for having a respect for a culture where people can say what they want and be disagreed with - not shut down when they're saying something we don't like.

      This was Tosh's performance on stage. This woman didn't like what he said, and tried to interrupt him and shut him down. So he shut her down.

      If it was wrong for Tosh to shut her down, then it was wrong for this woman to interrupt Tosh in the first place. She could and did comment afterwards. She can and maybe should take to the stage herself - and if Tosh interrupted her during her performance, then he would be in the wrong and she would be justified in saying anything she wanted to shut him down.

      Do you see the situation that I'm talking about?

      I wish everyone would look past the content and just see the mechanics of this situation. I know content is inflammatory and emotional. But just as the ACLU defends the rights of Nazis to march because it's right in the larger sense, so we should respect the rights of performers to say things that offend us and not be interrupted while in the exercise of their free speech.

      "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton | http://ideaddicted.blogspot.com

      by jbeach on Sat Jul 14, 2012 at 12:47:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We are criticizing Tosh.... (4+ / 0-)

        ....for essentially threatening a woman with gang rape or at the very least, finding it hysterically funny. I don't give a shit if she was a heckler. What he did was, morally, NOT OKAY. He should be criticized, period, end of story.

        •  OK, we disagree. (5+ / 0-)

          I think a performer on a stage has a right to say anything they want. And I think they have the further right to say anything they want to someone who is interrupting that performance - whatever their reason is.

          Since your name is "metal prophet", I'm going to make the leap that you like metal bands. I do too. So, let's say Black Sabbath is performing somewhere. Does some Christian fundie who is offended by their lyrics, have the moral right to go to the show and jam the speakers so no one else can hear it? I'd say no.

          Does this rule now change if the band sucks? I still say no.

          Does the band now have the right to play a song the Christian fundie finds even more offensive, if that's what it takes to drive him out and regain control of the show? I say yes.

          Now that same Christian fundie has the right to hate on Black Sabbath or any other band, for any reason or no reason, forever. That criticism is different than interrupting the performance.

          Do you see the analogy?

          "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton | http://ideaddicted.blogspot.com

          by jbeach on Sat Jul 14, 2012 at 01:24:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  But... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LSophia, Ahianne

        If Tosh asked for ideas from the audience re: the subject(s) he should now be funny on (so to speak), and one audience member called out "rape!" while another (who happened to be female) called out "rape isn't funny!", why are we even calling the second person a heckler?

        Second Person was simply registering an opinion (protected by the First Amendment, by your own argument) on First Person's suggestion, and Tosh's response was to "shut down a heckler"--who was responding to another audience member, not to Tosh's routine--by suggesting the audience member, a woman, be gang-raped.

        Do you REALLY think if it had been a man who shouted that rape jokes aren't funny, that Tosh would have shouted back that the male "heckler" ought to be gang-raped?  Really and truly?

        Because if you don't--if you think for even a fraction of a second that Tosh would NOT suggest that a male "heckler" objecting to rape jokes should himself be raped--then you're exhibiting the very double standard presently at issue: that it's okay to make jokes at the expense of minorities because their position as minorities interferes with their ability to fight back and be taken seriously.

        If we're talking about humor, it wasn't funny.  If we're talking about the displayed attitudes of the society, it really isn't funny.

    •  Actually, it's insinuated above by (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sparhawk

      "Syd of the Funny Hat," who likens jokes about rape to the yelling "fire" in a crowded theater analogy.

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