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View Diary: This week in the War on Women: Wanna hear a joke? You should be raped! Hahaha! (322 comments)

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  •  Why not? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Americantrueandblue, Sparhawk

    First, yes I do make the same argument as far as Rush Limbaugh is concerned. I did at the time, also. If we want Bill Maher to be able to say things that offend the Right, we must accept that Rush should be able to say things that offend the Left.

    Second, I'm not "trying to spin it as a gender v. gender matter". I'm responding to this statement of yours,

    I've read a whole lot of responses to this story, and it's almost always men who are defending Tosh.

    Rape is part of the package of male privilege. Most men are blind to male privilege, and being called out on it really pisses them off...

    ...which seems to me to clearly be dismissing the responses of men defending Tosh's right to offensive things, as being due to maleness and not to the merits of their arguments.

    Which is a sexist argument, which I therefore disagree with.

    Third, yes that is my definition of a joke. What is yours? How is a joke that you agree with that Christian fundamentalists find offensive, such as the many jokes about Sarah Palin, different in structure as opposed to in substance?

    Because if it's different in substance alone, that means you're applying a subjective value judgement to speech. Which means you're elevating speech about what matters to you above what matters to others.

    No one's subjective opinion of what is funny is objectively wrong or right.

    "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton | http://ideaddicted.blogspot.com

    by jbeach on Sat Jul 14, 2012 at 12:24:25 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I'm not dismissing (6+ / 0-)

      the male POV, I'm pointing out that it is men who defend, perpetuate, and benefit from rape culture. It's part of the package of male privilege. And one of the saddest aspects of my political life (and I'm 55) that liberal men are just as guilty as conservatives of blind male privilege and sexism.

      There are men posting on this thread who are making the same arguments I am.

      If that's a sexist argument - well, then call me a female chauvinist pig, just like my late father was fond of doing.

      It's impossible to talk about male privilege and rape culture without pointing out where this originates and who it's defenders are.

      Tosh wasn't making a joke. Tosh was making a woman STFU with a thinly veiled threat of violence.  No one is asking for censorship, no matter how many times you try to spin it that way. The market will decide about Tosh, and I suspect the market will throw him back into the Sea of Bad Comics.

      "Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day." ~ Harry Truman

      by susanthe on Sat Jul 14, 2012 at 01:00:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't see how you can think that was not a joke. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Americantrueandblue

        I don't see how that absurd comment can be construed as a veiled threat in any way, shape or form. I don't see how this woman was actually afraid of being raped because of what Tosh said.

        I mean, I don't see how that comes out of this statement made in a public place at all.

        But that is of course your right to have that opinion. And if you were performing on a stage where people paid to see you express that opinion, and I disagreed, I would simply leave. But if I did not leave, and instead interrupted your act, you would have the right to say anything you wanted to regain control of your act - and make it once again about your expression, and not about mine.

        Do you see what I'm saying?

        "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton | http://ideaddicted.blogspot.com

        by jbeach on Sat Jul 14, 2012 at 01:15:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  ? How is that not dismissive? (0+ / 0-)
        [I'm not dismissing] the male POV, I'm pointing out that it is men who defend, perpetuate, and benefit from rape culture.
        So, how is that not dismissing what you see as the male POV?

        It seems to me you're very clearly implying that males defending Tosh's right to say stupid offensive things is because they approve of or beneft from "rape culture".

        If that isn't what you're implying, then why bring it up? How is that relevant to this discussion?

        "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton | http://ideaddicted.blogspot.com

        by jbeach on Sat Jul 14, 2012 at 01:31:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  that you ask that question (4+ / 0-)

          speaks volumes.

          How is male privilege and rape culture NOT relevant to this discussion?

          "Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day." ~ Harry Truman

          by susanthe on Sat Jul 14, 2012 at 03:48:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I ask again: How is your use not dismissive? (0+ / 0-)

            You said:

            [I'm not dismissing] the male POV, I'm pointing out that it is men who defend, perpetuate, and benefit from rape culture.
            What's the point of saying that, if you're not intending to dismiss the opinions of men who disagree with your opinion?

            Please educate me.

            "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton | http://ideaddicted.blogspot.com

            by jbeach on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 01:06:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Why (0+ / 0-)

              You aren't listening. You aren't reading what I'm writing. You aren't interested in being educated, or even attempting to hear my point of view.

              You're far too interested in expressing your overwhelming rightness, and trying to make me look like I'm picking on the poor mens, because it's impossible to talk about male privilege/rape culture without talking about men.

              You're more than a little defensive.

              "Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day." ~ Harry Truman

              by susanthe on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 06:34:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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