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View Diary: After Aurora: When "thoughts and prayers" simply aren't enough (157 comments)

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  •  The laws in the US have gone from (0+ / 0-)

    no issue to shall issue to must issue as regards concealed weapons permits. Weapons that were banned are now legal. A higher number of guns are present in the US. Guns are available over the internet. Gun shows proliferate. People's attitudes towards guns have shifted to the right. The policy of the NRA radically shifted in the late seventies following their entrance into electoral politics.

    We worry when things like the Aurora shooting happen . And we try to figure out how to minimuize the occurance of such events in the future. We do not want this to happen again. The question is how many more people must die needlessly until people who think like you will try to become part of the solution instead of standing on the sidelines and shouting down the debate.

    You have shown a willingness to warp and misconstrue studies so support your specious arguments. Either that or you are not very good at reading. I do not want to take away your guns. I just want the lying and the misrepresentations to stop. Tell the truth. Stop the lies. That is the problem that liberals have with you and the NRA. And consider why your gun is more important to you than a dead innocent victims life.

    •  Excuse me? (0+ / 0-)

      You've gone out of your way to misrepresenting the actual findings in reports you cite, highlighting meaningless phrases indicating the authors' political preferences while utterly ignoring the conclusions.

      You present, then disavow out of insane incredulity, clear evidence of defensive gun use that far outstrips even the most pessimistic estimates of gun violence.  

      I don't doubt that you worry about mass shootings, but it's simply a lie to say that you try and figure out a damned thing.  You come back with the same old nonsense about ammo capacity, cosmetic complaints about stocks, and your obsessive hatred for the NRA.  You're slate of solutions hasn't changed in two decades and betrays a thorough ignorance of both criminology and even the basic mechanism of firearms.

      And that's the problem Americans have with you. And I would dearly love for you to stop you dragging my party down with you in your disgusting exploitation of outrages like Aurora.

      •  Show me how I have misrepresented anything (0+ / 0-)

        Go ahead prove it. Or do you just like shooting your mouth off like a big man with nothing to back it up. What have you ever done for the Democratic party. Did you ever walk a precinct? Or phone bank? Ever volunteer for a local party organization? Or volunteer for a candidate? I have for over 20 years. DO NOT TELL ME I AM DRAGGING THE PARTY DOWN.

        If your idea of truth is public polling then I suppose you think Sadam Husein was responsible for 9/11. Or you doubt that the President is a citizen. Or a Christian.

        Just because you can handle a real debate with someone who will call you out on your bullshit does not entitle you to impune me. Or my motives. I have not said anything about the specifics of firearms.

        To quote you "You come back with the same old nonsense about ammo capacity, cosmetic complaints about stocks, and your obsessive hatred for the NRA.  You're slate of solutions hasn't changed in two decades and betrays a thorough ignorance of both criminology and even the basic mechanism of firearms."

        I have not done any of these things. I simply questioned your sources. To which you have no response. I am not concerned with ammo capacity, the difference between semi-automatic and automatic weapons or the difference between arms and ordinance. So I do not argue about them. But the studies you cite are shit and you have no answer for this. So you deflect and change the topic.

        Glad you finally figured out how to post a link, genius.

        How again did I exploit Aurora? care to point me to that part?

        •  In order: (0+ / 0-)

          1. You presented a lit review of defensive gun use estimates you said shows that such estimates are unreliable.  The report makes no such conclusion and no such conclusion is supported by its contents.

          2. You misrepresented the Sproule article as demonstrating that "gun control is a good idea."  The findings support no such conclusion, regardless of the author's personal feelings.

          You and your allies are dragging the party down.  You're one of the larger obstacles to securing greater rural support for progressive causes that actually work, and you do so for reasons that defy any rational explanation.  You personally have  stood on the bodies of victims to proclaim your own righteousness.

          •  First of all how dare you accuse me of expolitatio (0+ / 0-)

            of the victims. What kind of a lowlife are you? Where are the quotes that back up your argument about Sproule. I include quotes and links to the articles. You provide nothing. I have no responsibility fro rural politics as I live in a semirural district in Florida that will soon be represented by Allan Grayson. And he will support gun control and he will win in an area of orange orchrids, strawberry fields and ranching as well as DisneyWorld. And so I am working fro Democratic victory in rural America.

            What are you going to do to insure Dems win in a rural area? Are you going to walk precincts and ring door bells? Are you going to phone bank? Pass out lit?

            I question studies cited by gun advocates after reading them. And I am the reason you can not get Dems elected in your area. How about you guys work harder.

            I am offended by your reference to having "stood on the bodies of victims". I am considering asking for an HR for that statement which I find to be below the belt.
            You are a person who lacks honor, you are a cheap-shot artist. And when faced with data that contraindicates your cherished belief you engage in personal attacks instead of countering with other evidence.

            •  And the faux outrage continues. (0+ / 0-)

              Yes, you exploit the victims.  That's a simple statement of fact.  Don't really care why you do it--you probably think you're doing it out of the most noble of intentions.  Don't much care for it, though.

              NRA endorsed Democrats are a third of the present Democratic Caucus in the House.  I support them, and they preserve my rights.  I'm not terribly concerned with whatever little anti-gun temper tantrum you might get behind in Florida; you've already lost the war.

              As for Sproule: "Our findings revealed that while the mean standardized national rate for total homicide did not differ significantly between the 2-year block periods for either suspects or victims, significant decreases were found in the use of firearms for suspects and for victims since the legislative changes in gun control and capital punishment in late 1976."

              You questioned nothing.  You presented a review of estimates and made not one argument against any of them.  You simply said they were garbage and that was that.  To be more precise, you claimed the review found that they were garbage.  It did no such thing.  You've shown yourself to be quite comfortable with lying.

              •  If we have lost the war it is because of (0+ / 0-)

                the lies of the gun community. You people in RKBA and your allies will stop at nothing to get your way. You will not engage in honest debate, you will lie, and smear, and then when you are losing you pull out the HR. You and your whole group are beneath contempt. You value your bang bang toys more than you value human life. You are the worst part of the Democratic party. You have sold your soul to the NRA whether you like to admit it or not.

                You may dislike the NRA but you are their trusted ally. You love your guns more than you love your country. You will not engage in an honest debate. It is not about guns, it is about your fundamentalist attitude. You are like the Taliban. Or the Christian right. You and your ilk are destroying America. And your favorite Congresspeople are destroying it  to.

                Remember this site is about electing more and better Democrats. And the Democrats who support your position need to be replaced with real Democrats. If you bothered to read other comments written by me you would understand that I am relatively pro-gun. I believe in responsible ownership and training, not confiscation. But I despise the mindless fundamentalism that you people bring to smother the debate. In no way are you and your ilk progressive in your thinking. You may be in the right on a few issues but your style of thinking and argumentation place you in the hard right.

                Do you people care about anything else? I do not see RKBA in non gun related discussions. Maybe you are here on a ruse? Not an accusation but a thought, a suspicion.

                You cowards have thrown the weapon of last resort, the HR. And that speaks volumes about you people and your values.

                •  Don't dislike the NRA. (0+ / 0-)

                  Others in RKBA may, but not me.  In any case, I think we've come to a fitting conclusion.  I still have my liberty and you're frothing at the mouth in incomprehensible anger.  So I'll leave it with:

                  1. You're a terrible, terrible Democrat,
                  2. You're an contemptible liar, and
                  3. You're immaterial.

                  Good bye.

        •  Almost forgot. (0+ / 0-)

          Ms. Citizen cited the Sproule study.  You cited the review of the defensive gun usage studies.  I cited Mundt, to which your only objection is an off-hand, out of context comment regarding the pitfalls of variation across international borders.

      •  Oh I see, by mentioning it I am expoliting it. (0+ / 0-)

        We are not allowed to talk about recent events because that hurts your feelings, right?

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