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View Diary: DOMA: Sally Ride's Partner of 27 Years Denied Federal Benefits. Is Romney Smiling? (200 comments)

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  •  There will never be a day (17+ / 0-)

    when that struggle is over. It's a cycle - the bigots and fanatics are always trying to roll back equality.  We move forward, they knock us back, we move forward again.

    What is undeniably true is that rights we enjoy now are extended to more people than in the past, and they will extend to more people in the future.  But it's never over.

    “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

    by ivorybill on Mon Jul 23, 2012 at 06:05:51 PM PDT

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    •  I don't believe that (9+ / 0-)

      It takes time and there are set backs but we do move forward.

      "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

      by high uintas on Mon Jul 23, 2012 at 06:11:51 PM PDT

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      •  We agree (18+ / 0-)

        We do move forward.  It's never hopeless and some victories count. For example, we're pretty much done with slavery except for the occasional human trafficking case. We're a better country than in 1865 (or 1955).  

        But humans are geniuses at identifying some new way to divide along identity lines and the fight truly will never be over.  It's a process, not something with an end point. Once the LGBT community and their straight allies secure a measure of equality, the haters will be hating on someone else. Marriage equality is unstoppable, and along with that, greater tolerance.  

        But even the battles that seem to be more or less resolved start unraveling again.  It's five decades since the Voting Rights Act and you still have Republicans trying to deny the vote to 90 year old black women without drivers licenses.  Is there anything more shameful? They can't quite deny the vote to 35 year old black professionals anymore, and there are enough black professionals now to be a recognizable class, so yes, that's genuine progress.  We've moved ahead... but my point is that it's a process and never a final achievement.

        “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

        by ivorybill on Mon Jul 23, 2012 at 06:29:27 PM PDT

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        •  Excellent comment! (11+ / 0-)
          It's five decades since the Voting Rights Act and you still have Republicans trying to deny the vote to 90 year old black women without drivers licenses.
          The inexorable (we hope) movement forward usually meets pushback.  But over the long view, justice wins.  Or so I hope.  

          "The next time I tell you someone from Texas should not be president of the United States, please, pay attention." Molly Ivins

          by janmtairy on Mon Jul 23, 2012 at 06:46:42 PM PDT

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        •  There's always another battle. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wishingwell, ivorybill, Matt Z

          Just found out this week, from the Dating edition of the Worst Case Survival Guide of all places, that yes there are states where couples which include at least one sexually revulsed partner can't get married - physical consummation is flat-out required before the signed marriage license is considered legally binding.

          So far as I know, no one in the asexual community has put together a list and the book certainly didn't include one, but considering the number of states that allow same-sex marriages now there's probably at least one now where GLBT people have more marriage rights than I do, at least when it comes to getting hitched in the state.

          I'd imagine that could well be the next marriage-related battle after the gender wars, if not because of the asexual community then because of the difficulty in 'was it consummated' being anything but 'he said-he said' or 'she said-she said' when PIV is definitionally NOT going to be happening in a same-sex marriage. And there's also difficulty of proof given that a heterosexual bride being a virgin on her wedding night is no longer considered a societal expectation except within certain religious groups. So yeah, that could well be next. A lesser battle, but given the number of religious groups who consider providing sexual access to a partner an absolute requirement for a marriage to occur, I'd imagine it will still be a fight.

          Prayers and best wishes to those in Japan.

          by Cassandra Waites on Mon Jul 23, 2012 at 09:51:16 PM PDT

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          •  "consummation is flat-out required" (0+ / 0-)

            Are you absolutely sure about that?    AFAIK the only time that can arise is in regards to contract fraud, where one party has made substantive misrepresentations.

            •  I haven't had a chance to do research. (0+ / 0-)

              Like I said, I only just found out it was even a possibility.

              The information was framed in the context of 'How To Stop A Wedding', as advice that in some states getting in the way between the church and the hotel so that sex post-'I Do' doesn't happen before the intended target is convinced the wrong person was chosen is enough to make the marriage invalid.

              Prayers and best wishes to those in Japan.

              by Cassandra Waites on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:18:12 AM PDT

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      •  Yes, we do move forward (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ivorybill

        I remember the battles the union had with management to allow my spouse's gay/lesbian colleagues to include their domestic partners (and for those in the 18K Club, their spouses) on their insurance coverage and as beneficiaries under the pension plan should they outlive the employee. Now, there's no question, but it wasn't always the case.

        "If we ever needed to vote we sure do need to vote now" -- Rev. William Barber, NAACP

        by Cali Scribe on Mon Jul 23, 2012 at 08:24:49 PM PDT

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