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View Diary: This is what happens when shooting massacres occur outside the USA (+apology) (154 comments)

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  •  Discussions of "the culture of violence" imply (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KVoimakas, theatre goon

    that the average person is inherently violent, ready to leap from normalcy to murder with a flared temper.

    Criminological studies of homicde prove that this misanthropic view isn't true. Murderers are, almost without exception (the recent shooter being one), individuals with a long history of escalating criminal violence and mental illness, as shown by a history of commitment and felony conviction.

    If you want to address homicide, by whatever means, you have to go after the real causes.

    Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

    by Robobagpiper on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 05:37:15 AM PDT

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    •  If you don't think we have a culture of violence, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      glorificus

      you're not paying attention.
      NO, it does not mean that the average person out there is inherently violent. (I would say that history shows us that humans are inherently violent, under the right circumstances.)
      However, we have ways of rationalizing away our violence and the fact of our social interconnectedness that bears an impact on violence.
      For one thing, we have a religion surrounding the 2nd amendment such that gun dealers, etc. feel a stronger imperative to facilitate any sales rather than enable police to take a look at someone who is throwing up red flags.
      We had one man in CO, the director of a gun club, who rightly sensed that something was wrong about Holmes, based on his telephone message.
      When people in positions of great responsiblity (gun sales, etc) start realizing the importance of their position, then we'll make a change, and there won't be any changes necessary to the 2nd amendment to make that happen.
      That's a function of the culture. The culture is awash in propaganda about the "threat to the 2nd amendment" etc. Even though there's a strong voice out there against the current interpretation of the 2nd amendment, there is no credible threat to it, and there is no massive left wing conspiracy to "take our guns."

      You can't make this stuff up.

      by David54 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 08:16:07 AM PDT

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      •  If our "culture of violence" were primarily (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KVoimakas, theatre goon

        responsible for the perpetration of violence, homicides would not be largely confined to a small fraction of repeat violent offenders. Simple as that.

        Cultural values do play into violence rates - those people whose cultures derive from Appalachia and the Deep South have considerably higher rates of violence than those found elsewhere; and this includes communities outside these core regions made up from migrants from them. But even there, it's not about typical behavior, it's the size of the aberrant tail of the distribution.

        The fact is, no "culture of violence" is especially likely to make a person not inclined to kill to do so, short of the heavy conditioning militaries have developed since discovering that without it, large fractions of soldiers shoot over the heads of the enemy, rather than at them.

        You will find no argument from me that people need to become more proactive in identifying those they feel are on the edge of a psychotic break. I myself have likened it from the cultural shift that saw letting an acquaintance drive drunk as their own business, as opposed to intervening by taking the keys and calling a cab. But that's not so much a "culture of violence" issue as redefining the line between minding one's own business and intervening.

        Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

        by Robobagpiper on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 08:34:19 AM PDT

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        •  Think about how NFL football has totally (0+ / 0-)

          supplanted observance of the Sabbath.

          Then there's video games and movies. I recently watched "The Bourne Trilogy" on DVR. I enjoyed it. It was violent.

          You can't make this stuff up.

          by David54 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 09:16:44 AM PDT

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          •  Seriously? This is your argument? (0+ / 0-)

            Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

            by Robobagpiper on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 09:21:15 AM PDT

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            •  Well, it was a toss-off. It is in fact a good (0+ / 0-)

              example of the coarsening and profaning of our culture.
              I stopped going to church when I was 12.
              I didn't play football, due to grass allergies. I did play basketball.
              The depiction of gun violence has changed in the movies, I think it's a problem for a lot of men.

              You can't make this stuff up.

              by David54 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:15:16 PM PDT

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              •  It does not stand to reason that the "coarsening (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                theatre goon

                and profaning of our culture" has anything to do with homicide rates.

                Simply stating examples of the former does not advance the argument that it's connected to the latter. "A lot of men" aren't the one committing the homicides. Career violent offenders are.

                Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

                by Robobagpiper on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 02:59:56 PM PDT

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                •  Here's a statistic. (0+ / 0-)

                  http://www.now.org/...

                  In 2005, 1,181 women were murdered by an intimate partner.1 That's an average of three women every day. Of all the women murdered in the U.S., about one-third were killed by an intimate partner.2
                  The "breakdown" of society is reflected in the culture. Culture is a very broad subject. There are a lot of pieces to the picture.

                  Here's another statistic, from National Institute for Justice. In fairness the article does state that familicide is rare.
                  The numbers are still staggering.
                  http://www.nij.gov/...

                  Role of Guns

                  The data are clear: More incidents of murder-suicide occur with guns than with any other weapon. Access to a gun is a major risk factor in familicide because it allows the perpetrator to act on his or her rage and impulses.

                  In 591 murder-suicides, 92 percent were committed with a gun [10]. States with less restrictive gun control laws have as much as eight times the rate of murder-suicides as those with the most restrictive gun control laws.

                  Compared to Canada, the United States has three times more familicide; compared to Britain, eight times more; and compared to Australia, 15 times more

                  .

                  You can't make this stuff up.

                  by David54 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 03:51:21 PM PDT

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          •  I just gotta say this: (0+ / 0-)

            Fuck the NFL and theism.

            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

            by KVoimakas on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 09:27:30 AM PDT

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