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View Diary: UPDATED: US fears massacre in #Aleppo, #Syria (43 comments)

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  •  There is (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joe from Lowell, mircead

    a valid struggle for freedom going on that was initiated by the Syrian people, regardless of the infiltrators from other countries or terrorist groups.

    Surely you are not suggesting otherwise?

    All aspects of this are being covered by some excellent reporters who are over there.  Are you following this in its entirety?

    •  There people are propagandists (5+ / 0-)

      who promote a conspiracy theory that is largely generated in and funded from Moscow.

      They show up and plaster Clay's diaries full of cherry picking pro-dictator/anti-popular Islamist/anti-American bullshit from all the usual FSB funded or controlled propaganda organs.  If they wrote their own diaries they'd get banned for CT promotion.

      They're always looking for wedge arguments and wedge strategies rather than getting the the argument right.  This is probably because their mission is about wedging Leftists against liberals inside the American Left about liberal interventionism rather than persuading.

      •  Thanks (4+ / 0-)

        for letting me know.

        I could make no sense of the focus only on infiltrators from terrorist groups.  Is there anyone here that believes that in that part of the world, these terrorist-types are not going to take advantage of any situation they can?

        That in no way alters the fact that the Syrian revolution began in March 2011 peacefully, by the people of the country, and over human rights abuses by Assad.  And these folks are still there, caught up in a violent struggle that Assad started.

        Oh, and the CIA may be there, in some fashion, reportedly. I'd like to know if anyone thinks the CIA is absent from anywhere, in some fashion.

        •  Exactly, and both sides will committ HR abuses if (3+ / 0-)

          the war goes on long enough. These people argue all the shit that necessarily attaches itself to the situation but went you cut away the wool, you have a people that started out peacefully demanding change that have been forced to take up arms in self-defense.

          Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

          by Clay Claiborne on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 03:38:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It was the same during the Libyan Revolution. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cynical Copper, indie17
          I could make no sense of the focus only on infiltrators from terrorist groups.
          I remember thinking, why are these supposed leftists running around with their hair on fire, warning me about skeery al Qaeda Mooslems?  They sound like Pat Buchanan during the Egyptian protests, or George Bush during the lawyers' protests in Pakistan.

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 07:02:44 PM PDT

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      •  Bullshit (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        chipmo, InAntalya

        An objective view here would show that not only is Assad supported by Moscow and is committing heinous crimes against his own people, it would also show that the FSA, from its inception, has been funded by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, assisted by Turkey, the US, France and Britain. They are also committing heinous crimes against the Syrian people. Clay only presents the former view. If he wanted to be more objective, he could inform people about the doubts that many observers and reporters have about some of the FSA claims of massacres (even the UN has corroborated the regime's story about Houla). He could tell us that the FSA is largely composed of Islamic elements - including al-Qaeda and Salafis who have no love for the US and are the types who would start killing heretical minorities wherever they are in control. If he wanted to be objective, he could tell you that the SNC/FSA is not the only opposition in Syria - there is the National Coordinating Body which operates in Syria (not outside) and is against sectarianism, violence and  foreign intervention. They are the elements we should be supporting.

        So take your false accusations and shove them.

        •  The UN has NOT corroborated the regime's story. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cynical Copper

          That is a flat-out falsehood.  From the UN Commission of Inquiry's report:

          The CoI is unable to determine the identity of the perpetrators at this time; nevertheless the CoI considers that forces loyal to the Government may have been responsible for many of the deaths. The investigation will continue until the end of the CoI mandate.

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 07:07:37 PM PDT

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          •  The UN report (0+ / 0-)

            stated that they could not determine who was responsible for the massacre at this time. Suspicions are not proof and as the quote you indicate shows, there is no evidence for any side doing this. Initial reports by UN observers on the ground indicated that what happened was closer to the Syrian governments account rather than the SNC/FSA account.

            •  So, IOW, they didn't corroborate the regime story. (0+ / 0-)

              You're going to stop claiming that they did, right?

              You're going to stop pretending that the UN confirmed, or even believes, that the rebels carried out the massacre, right?

              And there is nothing in the report that backs up your fall-back assertions.  The only expression of probability they made was about the regime.

              Art is the handmaid of human good.

              by joe from Lowell on Sat Jul 28, 2012 at 08:27:53 AM PDT

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      •  Absolutely on-target. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        These are people who treat Putin media organ "Russia Today" as an unimpeachable, objective source.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Fri Jul 27, 2012 at 06:59:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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