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View Diary: Elizabeth Warren shows common sense, courage on assault weapons ban (113 comments)

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  •  And continue to ignore the carnage. You can close (1+ / 0-)
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    your eyes and pretend that there is no problem as America gets more violent. Or you can choose to help find a solution. It is really up to you.

    •  More violent? (0+ / 0-)

      Last I checked, violent crime is on the decline.

      •  Link to statistics, please. Violence is up when (0+ / 0-)

        economics are down. Domestic violence is an example. Unemployed parents feeling they are not doing what they should to support their family. Parents that have send children to another relative, or pulled children out of an expensive school. Parents that cannot afford the activities the children were involved in.

        Parents, especially males, shoot the family, then shoot themselves.

        My personal computer is limited, can't post without tagging on. Community computer better. Pardon tagging to comments, spelling, please.

        by CuriousBoston on Sat Jul 28, 2012 at 08:44:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here you go. (1+ / 0-)
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          2011 report:

          Violent Crime

          In 2011, all four of the violent crime offense categories—murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault—declined nationwide when compared with data from 2010. Murder and non-negligent manslaughter declined 1.9 percent, while forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault each declined 4.0 percent.
          Violent crime declined in all city groups. Cities with populations of 50,000 to 99,999 saw the largest decrease (5.2 percent) in violent crime. Violent crime decreased 6.6 percent in metropolitan counties and 4.7 percent in nonmetropolitan counties.
          Within city groups, murder and non-negligent manslaughter offenses increased the most (18.3 percent) in cities with populations under 10,000. Cities with populations of 50,000 to 99,999 showed the largest decrease of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter offenses (14.4 percent).
          All city groupings experienced a decline in forcible rapes except in cities with 500,000 to 999,999 inhabitants, which had the increase in forcible rapes (0.5 percent). Forcible rape offenses declined 6.8 percent in metropolitan counties and 9.0 percent in non-metropolitan counties.
          Robbery offenses decreased in all city groupings, with the greatest decrease (5.3 percent) in cities with 50,000 to 99,999 inhabitants. Robberies decreased 7.5 percent in metropolitan counties and 3.6 percent in nonmetropolitan counties.
          Aggravated assaults decreased in all city groups. Cities with 50,000 to 99,999 inhabitants experienced the largest decrease at 5.3 percent. Aggravated assaults declined in both county groups, with a decrease of 6.3 percent in metropolitan counties and 4.2 percent in nonmetropolitan counties.
          Violent crime decreased in all four regions (4.9 percent in the Midwest, 4.7 percent in the West, 4.5 percent in the South, and 0.8 percent in the Northeast).

          And the longer trend (through to 2009).
          •  This is a link to Houston, TX, there are many (0+ / 0-)

            links from the USA and the UK.


            I am sure the DOJ or CDC or NIH could provide similar links.

            My personal computer is limited, can't post without tagging on. Community computer better. Pardon tagging to comments, spelling, please.

            by CuriousBoston on Sun Jul 29, 2012 at 09:00:01 AM PDT

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            •  Pardon postscript. A suburbanite that hunts, also (0+ / 0-)

              uses pistols for gun protection, nearly shoots his son. The son is using his key to enter the house at night. The intelligence, reaction time, and strengh of the son prevent tragedy.

              How many similar "deliberates" happen every year? (I classify car "accidents", as deliberates, too.

              My personal computer is limited, can't post without tagging on. Community computer better. Pardon tagging to comments, spelling, please.

              by CuriousBoston on Sun Jul 29, 2012 at 09:05:03 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  We expect fluctuation in the signal. (0+ / 0-)

              But the long term national trend is clear.  Violence is declining across the board.

              •  Not for domestic violence. It is going up. A (0+ / 0-)

                reverse of the national trend. it is getting worse. It is not a "signal", it is people being killed.

                My personal computer is limited, can't post without tagging on. Community computer better. Pardon tagging to comments, spelling, please.

                by CuriousBoston on Sun Jul 29, 2012 at 10:50:58 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It is a signal. (0+ / 0-)

                  That's precisely what a time-series data set is.  

                  The national trend is declining.

                  The percentage of female victims (22%) of intimate partner violence was about 4 times that of male victims (5%). The NCVS defines intimate partners as current or former spouses, boyfriends, or girlfriends. The rate of intimate partner violence for females decreased from 2009 to 2010. In comparison, there were no significant differences in the numbers and rates of intimate partner victimizations for males from 2009 to 2010 (table 6).
                  That's not to minimize suffering and death of victims, but this is a discussion of the public policy response; not a forum for emotional outrage.
      •  I did not say violent crime. I referred to the (0+ / 0-)

        cultural glorification of violence in American society. As in the huge support for the war in Iraq before people realized that Bush was lying. The belittling of the peace movement. The embrace of torture by the American people. The mean spiritedness of American society. Did not Heinlein say that an armed society is a polite society? I do not see a lot of politeness in our society. And it has gotten worse over the past 12 years or so.

        Violent crime is down in the US. But it is still more than twice as high as crime in the rest of the industrialized world.

        •  Pretty words. (0+ / 0-)

          What does any of it have to do with gun control?

          •  OK Pete I am going to tell you what happened to (0+ / 0-)

            me. About 20 years ago I was at a friends house. He shared this house with another guy. So I am sitting at a Commodore 64 playing Frogger. And without warning friends house mate comes in the room at puts a .357 pistol up against my temple. Not aimed at, but right up against my head. And then I hear the gun cock. My friend shuts off the computer, house mate lowers gun and I leave with my friend. I said to him "What an asshole, good thing that gun was not loaded." My friends response was "OH no, it was definitely loaded." The house mate had a small arsenal, all legally obtained. My friend moved out two days later and I never saw the room mate again.

            What kind of an asshole pulls a gun on a guy just for playing a video game without any warning? I'll tell you a gun owner thats what kind of an asshole does that. But I guess as a fellow gun owner you understand what that guy went through, wouldn't you?

            This is a violent country and the violence is causing us to rot from within. It is the marker of a civilization in decline. A government that can not protect its people is a government that has outlived its usefulness. The right to own a gun is unconnected to any of the political or criminal rights in the Bill of Rights. We need to be protected from crazy people with guns. My right to live and not be murdered is more important than your right to own toys that go BANG BANG. We could get rid of the 2nd amendment tomorrow and it would not mean the decline of the other rights in the bill of rights. You are putting people in the position of having to go to war in order to protect citizens from people armed with guns. Do you really mean that you will use your firearms to defend your right to own fire arms? Why did you not use your firearms to defend the other amendments. Like Haebas Corpus? Or search and seizure? You will not use your fire arms to defend against torture? Is the 2nd amendment more important than the rest of the amendments. Does only the 2nd amendment matter? Because I do not see you standing up for the resty of the constitution.

            •  Didn't call the police? (2+ / 0-)

              Why not?  What happened to you is at least felony assault in any jurisdiction.  Instead, you craft this strange eschatology and pursue an extremely dubious public policy cause.

              Our right to live and to keep and bear arms are not in conflict except in you own imagination.  And what's with this lunatic call to take up arms against perceived violations of other rights?  This is America. There's no truncheon of oppression bearing down on our heads.  A small part of that is because culturally and practically it's the next best thing to impossible for government here to get out of line.  But for the most part, it's because the country is made up of good and decent people.

              I don't accept this dead ender view of the country.  Part of that's because I've seen far worse parts of the world in my life.  But even then it should be obvious to anyone that what you imagine to be the state of things bears little to no resemblance to reality.

              •  If you were good and decent you would not argue (0+ / 0-)

                in such a disingenuous manner. You would respect that other people feel real pain and suffering because of your attitudes towards your "rights". It is not the guns that worry me so much as the attitude of gun rights suppoters like yourself. You always have an excuse, someone or something else is to blame. You will not take responsibility for what your guns do. You talk about rights as if they are sacred, and then you talk about how we lost the popularity contest.

                I did talk to the cops. They encouraged me to let the matter drop. See the guy with the gun was a friend to many cops and politically well connected. Funny how you did not ask if anything could be done to prevent this guy from coming at me with a gun. Nor do you call him out for the irrational and dangerous act of putting a gun to my head. If this is America and there is nothing to worry about then why do you need a gun?If not for protection then why? Because you really like guns. Disable them then and hang them on the wall. If it is because you like things that go bang then consider maturing out of adolescence. This guy decided that his right to show off and frighten me with his weapon was more important than my right to not be murdered. And he was shielded from taking any responsibility for his reckless actions.

                I fully understand reality. I too have visited other countries. But I visited other countries that lack our fetish for guns and gun violence. It is not that difficult to go from being a law abiding gun owner to a criminal. All it requires is a victim. An unarmed victim who is minding his own business. So the victim has to live with the consequences of somebodies else's choice.

                Your guns do not protect you from tyranny. The armed forces are better armed than you are. I hear a lot of people talk about the consequences of confiscation. And that many would fight to keep there guns. Violence would ensue. So if the police and or the army come knocking on your door, knowing they outgun you what are you going to do. hand over the weapons or engage them in a fire fight. And if you are willing to do that to protect your gun rights would you use force to protect the rest of the constitution?

                Things are not as rosy as you would like them to be. We are a nation that tortures people. We fight illegal wars of conquest. We violate all the treaties governing warfare. We spy on our own people. We are well on the way to tyranny right now. And the only thing you care about is your guns.

                •  This is rich. (0+ / 0-)

                  Oh.  I get it.  You were dealing with a Frogger loving psychopath who has run of the whole damn town.  Sounds to me like you and your friend had bigger problems than a gun.  

                  I didn't ask because quite frankly, I don't believe you.  Your story was fishy from the get go and it's not getting any better.  I might be wrong.  If I am, then what's stopping your friend's room mate from acquiring a pistol illegally with the help of his friends on the force?  I mean come on, if you're going to pretend you live on the set of Hobo with a Shotgun, you might as well go full bore.

                  I didn't say I visited other countries.  I lived in other countries.  I was born in another country.  You know nothing of this experience, just as you know nothing of gun owners.  And again, what's up with your lunatic call for gun owners to go all Red Dawn?

                  You're full of it, and that's that.

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