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View Diary: BREAKING: Senior Syrian diplomat to Armenia defects (175 comments)

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  •  Is there a popular uprising in China? (4+ / 0-)

    The Iraqis didn't overthrow Saddam; we did.  Unlike Libya and Syria, in which the Libyans and Syrians themselves - the people who were living under those dictatorships - overthrew them, and we played a supporting role comparable to the French Fleet at Yorktown.

    It is a giant, glaring blind spot not to recognize the difference between the US toppling someone else's government, vs. the U.S. backing locals who topple their own government.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Tue Jul 31, 2012 at 11:48:09 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  So (5+ / 0-)

      if I don;t support American intervention on the side of a popular uprising I support the regime?

      It is a giant glaring blind spot to equate non support for military intervention into support for a regime.

      •  Thank you for demonstrating my point so well. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldliberal, Cynical Copper, mookins

        The entire issue of the local population is completely absent in your comment, despite the fact that it is the entirety of mine.

        As I said, you just completely overlook what everyone should recognize as the core, central point here: the uprising of the local populace themselves against their dictator, and the difference between that and an outside power invading a country and toppling its government themselves.

        The entire subject of the Libyans, of the Syrians - you dismiss with a sneering "So?"  Because, instead, this is ALL ABOUT US, and ALL ABOUT YOU.

        Your attitude here is exactly why the - let's call you "anti-anti-Assad activists" - have been such a massive FAILtrain throughout this episode.  The only thing you know, or care, about Syria is that America sucks.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Tue Jul 31, 2012 at 12:19:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thank you for demonstrating my point so well (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          You take the issue of supporting or not supporting intervention and then hyperbolically and falsely equate the position as "support" for the regime.

          Your attitude is exactly  why - let's call them the Neocons - have been such a massive FAILtrain throughout every episode.

          The only thing you know, or care, about Syria is that the US should intervene there.

    •  Also too (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      if a regime is a more effective oppressor, they are exempt from your characterizations.  

      After all, they don;t face "popular uprisings."

      Stalin was a saint right?

      •  Hosni Mubarak says you're wrong. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        He was one of the most effective oppressors on the face of the earth, for decades.  Right up until he wasn't.

        But, yes, the initiative for taking down a dictator has to come from the oppressed population itself.  That is a key element in determining whether hostile action towards that dictator might be appropriate.  I shouldn't need to be explaining this to someone who conceives of himself as anti-imperialist.  It should really be a core understanding of your already.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Tue Jul 31, 2012 at 12:23:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It is indeed (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          But it is not the only "key element."

          To you it appears to be, though how you gauge what constitute appropriate levels of "popular uprising" is unclear to me.

          To you, it is a simple world, wave the magic US intervention wand and all is fixed.

          It does not work that way in real life, only in Neocon dreams, and apparently, yours.

      •  So what? We can't help everybody. (0+ / 0-)

        I can't help every old woman cross the street. But that doesn't stop me from helping any old woman I can help. This argument that we must be 100% consistent, that consistency is more important that logic or morality or any other consideration is just bunk IMO. We can and should make the world a better place whenever we realistically can.

    •  War on Terra has changed... Orwell had it right. (1+ / 0-)
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      The government uses propaganda to convince people that, “We’ve always been at war with Eastasia”.  

      The dumbed-down public doesn’t even notice that they’ve switches sides, and blindly rallies around Eurasia as its perennial friend and ally.

      The same thing is happening in real life with Al Qaeda.

      Western governments and mainstream media have admitted that Al Qaeda is fighting against the secular Syrian government, and that the West is supporting the Syrian opposition … which is helping Al Qaeda.
      Similarly, the opposition which overthrew Libya’s Gadaffi was mainly Al Qaeda … and they now appear to be in control of Libya (and are instrumental in fighting in Syria.)

      The U.S. also funds terrorist groups within Iran.

      Of course, Al Qaeda was blamed for 9/11, and the entire decades-long “War on Terror” was premised on rooting out Al Qaeda and related groups.

      So the fact that we now consider Al Qaeda fighters to be allies in any way, shape or form is positively Orwellian.
                            MUCH MORE AT LINK

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