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View Diary: Denver Post: Holmes' Psychiatrist Warned University's "Threat Assessment Team" In June (172 comments)

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  •  Wow (6+ / 0-)

    I know people want someone to blame here. But you guys are jumping to a lot of conclusion based on a very sketchy article.

    It is typical of people, especially irrational Americans, to be reactionary after a big event and think up a bunch of bad ideas for how to prevent anything like this from ever happening again.

    But is it really the responsibility of a college or university to monitor their student's mental health to the degree that they could predict what Holmes did?

    Think about what you're wishing for here.

    In hindsight, it's real easy to point fingers and say, "You should have done something." And because it's so easy, a lot of stupid people do just that. And they call for legislation that looks good in the headlines even though it has no practical possibility of being effective.

    It boggles my mind how otherwise, seemingly intelligent people can watch CNN or whatever and use whatever bullshit those talking asshole say on TV to form any kind of opinion about anything.

    Or to take an article that has no details, no context, pretty much nothing of substance other than a claim from unnamed sources and mount a strong opinion from it?

    Nancy Grace? Is that you?

    There may actually be culpability somewhere. But where not going to figure it out from a "Breaking News" article.

    Meanwhile, the national security corporate state is salivating over the prospects of colleges and universities being forced to develop psychological profiles on all their students.

    Think how useful those profiles would be in 20 years when Joe College Student is running for congress - as a Democrat.

    I am NOT saying we should do nothing. But some of the suggestions in this thread are just creepy. Every time some crazy bastard does something horrible, we allow more limits on our freedom.

    Would you really want to go to a university that had the capability to predict James Holmes's actions? Is that really the way to deal with the problem of violence and mental health?

    Or should we be fostering the kind of society that precludes most people like James Holmes from becoming raging psychopaths in the first place? Is that possible?

    No, I am not suggesting that James Holmes's mental condition was the result of society's failings, although it may be. But I am suggesting that there are many destructive, even barbaric aspects of American life that are definitely increasing the number of psychopathic personalities. Poverty, overworked parents, mass media culture that exploits people's fears and capacity for hatred...

    I could go on. There will always be psychopaths. But they should be far, far fewer than they are. Our society is sick, and more authoritarian control is neither going to cures it, or make us safer.

    •  what the hell are you talking about? (32+ / 0-)

      I read the thread. No one is suggesting universities have psyche profiles on students.

      James was seeing a psychiatrist. Of his own volition. And according to this article it seems she had concerns about his stability and reported it, as she is required to do by law. Any pschychiatric professional is required to.

      She reported to university police who ignored it. And iirc, the same thing happened at Virginia tech. There were people who raised alarms but university police ignored it.

      I think in the case of James, at least, the university police should've been ignored. The psychiatrist should've gone to actual law enforcement who are better trained what to do in this case. This is not reactionary. Every psychiatrist in the country is bound by law to report someone they believe is a danger to self or others. And rightly so. I don't believe we ought to change that rule. In general it's seemed to have been working pretty well.

       She did what she was supposed to do. University police dropped the ball.

      •  "Reactionary" does not mean what you think (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        luckylizard

        it means.

        It's common to see this term used incorrectly on Daily Kos, and a bit embarrassing.

        From Google:

        Reactionary: Opposing political or social liberalization or reform.

        From Wikipedia:

        Reactionary: A reactionary is an individual that holds reactionary political viewpoints which cause them to seek to return to a previous state (the status quo ante) in a society.

        -9.63, 0.00
        I am not a purity troll. I am a purity warrior.

        by nobody at all on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 08:44:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  when you have to whip out a google or wiki (0+ / 0-)

          definition, you lose.

          look, the OP said that we were far too willing to cede our rights and blatantly said that it would lead to universities having psyche profiles on students which is a butt-assed dumb assertion and I called it out with actual facts. period.

          •  I'm not commenting on the substance, that wasn't (0+ / 0-)

            my intention.

            Just on the use of that word, in general, at DailyKos.

            It gets used all the time here in a way that ends up meaning something that the poster didn't mean at all, and as an old calling cry of the left, it oughtn't be used incorrectly here. It is, in fact, embarrassing.

            I have no other comment and wasn't commenting on the substantive points of the post to which I replied. I was saying "please know the meanings of the words that you use if you want to communicate clearly."

            -9.63, 0.00
            I am not a purity troll. I am a purity warrior.

            by nobody at all on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 08:25:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Women, not cops (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        samanthab, mdmslle

        In the Colorado case and in Virginia Tech, those reporting the threat were women ... and those not following up on the reports were cops ... real men, in other words. Two instances don't make a trend, of course, but my bones tell me it's more than two instances where cops don't take women very seriously.

        •  alwasys possible but I think the obvious answer (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PavePusher

          is that university cops seem ill equipped to handle this type of stuff. maybe some student puking in the stacks or fucking in the engineering building after hours is more their speed.

          it seems universities are closed little systems and they try to keep all their dirt in the family. its not until the shit hits the fan that the townies are called on.

          maybe i'm recalling incorrectly with VA Tech but I seem to remember the university police being involved early on.

    •  Learn something before writing. (16+ / 0-)

      Psychopath is the old word for sociopath. Holmes did not resemble one in the least. What he looked like was classic schizophrenia during a first psychotic break.

      Psychopathy is not even near psychosis in symptomology.

      There is no evidence that societal failings induce either psychopathy or psychosis. In fact schizophrenia  incidence is remarkably steady through the ages and throughout the world.

      Most people with schizophrenia are not actually dangerous. And those suffering from the ailment should not loose all civil rights.

      I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

      by samddobermann on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 04:03:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        grover, Alice Olson, greengemini, SadieSue

        Everything about this guy screams schizophrenia diagnosis.  He's the right age for onset.

        I'm surprised there wasn't a law in Colorado that would have allowed his psychiatrist to commit him to a psych hospital for observation.  Florida has one, the Baker Act.  There, all it takes is three people willing to sign off on a commitment.

        "Fighting Fascism is Always Cool." -- Amsterdam Weekly, v3, n18 (-8.50, -7.23)

        by Noor B on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 07:11:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  thanks (5+ / 0-)

        I have made similar comments in other diaries. As a matter of fact when I first heard about this tragedy that was my immediate reaction. As a student Mental Health Nurse Practitioner I was not willing to say schizophrenia but I certainly thought paranoid psychosis.....(As an aside paranoids as a group tend to be less disorganized and more able to hold things together and function at a high level. Ted Kaczynski finished his PhD and had a very elaborate delusional system established. John Nash is another example.)

      •  Took the words right out of my mouth..... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LieparDestin

        I have made similar comments in other diaries. As a matter of fact when I first heard about this tragedy that was my immediate reaction. As a student Mental Health Nurse Practitioner I was not willing to say schizophrenia but I certainly thought paranoid psychosis.....(As an aside paranoids as a group tend to be less disorganized and more able to hold things together and function at a high level. Ted Kaczynski finished his PhD and had a very elaborate delusional system established. John Nash is another example.)

    •  Really? (6+ / 0-)

      The guy was seeing a shrink, if she had reason to be alarmed she did the right thing. Too many school shooting and needless deaths could have been averted if people did their jobs and took this seriously.

    •  Have you ever received mental health care in this (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shaharazade, Alice Olson, Ice Blue

      Country?

      There is no "jumping to conclusions" here. I speak from experience.

      Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

      by Horace Boothroyd III on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 07:26:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually (0+ / 0-)

      a lot of us thought of great ideas for preventing this years before this ever happened, but they'll never get enacted, so....

      those deaths are just the cost of American doing business.

      Courtesy Kos. Trying to call on the better angels of our nature.

      by Mindful Nature on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 08:38:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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