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View Diary: NRA Scores Another Victory Over Rights of Property Owners (47 comments)

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  •  Actually, you can't. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tom Seaview, PavePusher

    The retail paint store hypothetical, that is.  You can refuse service and require someone to leave, but simply having a policy or posting a sign that no guns are allowed does not a law make.  Let us say that in your retail paint store you have such a policy and sign.  Let us further say that I am lawfully carrying a concealed weapon.  I walk into your store.  I have violated no laws.  If you notice my concealed weapon, if, for example, I was reaching up to a high shelf or something similar, you could not have me arrested for I have broken no law.  You could tell me that you are refusing service and require me to leave.  If I do not, in most cases that would be trespassing and I could be arrested.  I might be able to file some sort of discrimination claim, but 'citizen' is neither heightened nor strict scrutiny in terms of category.

    The situation is similar in your unfenced front yard.  Let us say I walk across it. You would be well within your rights to tell me to stop, point out your property line, and require me to leave.  If I do so, I have broken no law.  If I refuse, then I am trespassing.

    Now to leave the realm of the hypothetical and rejoin the real world, the question at hand is whether or not businesses and their owners should have a legal right to enforce against their employees a policy that covers the disposition of legally owned private property safely and securely locked away in a vehicle that resides in a publicly accessible forum, i.e. a gun locked in the trunk of a car.  The NRA fought for a specific law in favor of protecting the employee in this instance, and opposed a politician who disagreed.

    Is it your position that said business should be able to take action against an employee who does just such a thing?  How about customers of this business, what consequences are there for them for doing such a thing?  What if, instead of "Enhydra's Paint Emporium and No-Gun Zone" banning firearms from employee's cars, it is Chick-Fil-A banning any literature which might promote gay/ lesbian equality, abortion, equal pay and opportunity for women, concern for the environment, the Occupy Movement, etc.  Are you still so ready to accept that businesses have a right to go into the locked trunk of employee's vehicles?

    Such an extreme defense of private property rights is reminiscent of the appellant's argument in Heart of Atlanta.

    •  If I have it posted, you are trespassing the (0+ / 0-)

      second you enter and I can have you removed, possibly arrested. You have no civil rights complaint, you hve no right to sneak, smuggle, bring or carry weapons onto another's property.

      The rest is simple silliness. (The phrase) "publicly accessible forum" highlights the confusion. Packing heat is not speech, race or religion. No disgruntled empoyee or customer has ever retrieved a pamphlet from their car and used it to murder his or her manager, coworkers, or those working or shopping at the facility , while it happens with regularity with guns, a distinction that is quite important.

       Are you still so ready to accept that businesses have a right to go into the locked trunk of employee's vehicles?
      Straw man - quote me.
      Such an extreme defense of private property rights is reminiscent of the appellant's argument in Heart of Atlanta.
      Only to those who deny that people have any private property rights whatsoever.

      That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

      by enhydra lutris on Sat Aug 04, 2012 at 10:20:51 AM PDT

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      •  But hey, at least you agree it has to be posted. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        enhydra lutris

        Some people here just don't get that.

        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

        by KVoimakas on Sat Aug 04, 2012 at 04:21:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Let's say one's case is much stronger if it is (0+ / 0-)

          posted, no less than 3 signs per mile of perimeter.

          Even if it isn't posted

          That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

          by enhydra lutris on Sun Aug 05, 2012 at 01:09:18 PM PDT

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      •  Where is the sign? On a FENCE? (0+ / 0-)

        I'm really not going to waste any more time, this is the last explanation.  If your yard is not fenced off, it is publicly accessible and is treated differently than the inside of your house or any fenced in area.

        If you don't believe me, fine.  I'm OK with that.  Just please don't go around trying to prove the point by carrying a pistol in your unfenced front yard in an area where unlicensed open carry is illegal.  I don't know where you live, but in California you would be breaking the law.

        As for your cavalier attitude against our right to privacy and your pro-segregation extreme variant of property rights, I suppose that is your bed to lie in.

        •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
          As for your cavalier attitude against our right to privacy and your pro-segregation extreme variant of property rights, I suppose that is your bed to lie in.
          No, it is yours, because it is a fiction of your imagination.

          That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

          by enhydra lutris on Sun Aug 05, 2012 at 12:17:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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