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View Diary: This is where I draw the line (172 comments)

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  •  what we do is: (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marina, avsp, emidesu, blueyedace2, firstalto

    1)  Bust our butts to re-elect Obama and "more better Democrats."

    2)  After a polite interval after the election, we descend upon Washington DC like a swarm of bees, with noisy protests and peaceful civil disobedience aimed at making it impossible for Congress to function until they deal with our demands, those being the entire progressive agenda.

    3)  We also inflict as much pain, misery, and damage as possible against the plutocratic right-wing and the theocratic right-wing, wherever we find them.  The goal being to keep them off balance and on the defensive.  Permissible tactics include mass sit-ins, littering, parking violations, and data-spills, and nonviolent "pranks & mischief."

    4)  At the same time, we take over the Democratic party from the bottom up: local county committees, that kind of stuff, and runs for local offices starting with dog catcher and moving up to Board of Education and entire city governments.  This is how the wacko right took over the Republican party, and it worked.  Never throw away a viable tactic, even if you've learned it from your enemies.

    As a generalization, there are enough things to do here, that everyone can do at least one of them.  There's no excuse for ass-sitting or thumb-bouncing.  The very existence of our species hangs in the balance (runaway climate change).  The question our dead grandchildren will ask us all, in the hypothetical hereafter, is, "what did you do to prevent human extinction?"  And we'd all better have a damn good answer to that.  

    "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

    by G2geek on Fri Aug 10, 2012 at 07:19:00 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Just musing, but (5+ / 0-)

      I believe the time is now to put the pressure on Obama. We can see he is echoing some of our ideals at the moment to get our votes. But while he talks about Mitt outsourcing, there are threatening secret trade negotiations (TPP) happening. While he talks about the social contract, and caring for the needy, he still permits in our government an overall dismissal of our civil rights, from drug enforcement to secret hearings to rampant spying; and other areas, such as the safety net, where we stand to lose if we don't take a firm stand now.

      I'm thinking of how the big boys (bankers, pharma) do it--work out their bargains ahead of time; by the time we hear about them, they're already a done deal.

      I wonder if we can exact those kinds of deals, although we have only our votes to work with. And of course, it's always important to choose our battles wisely.

      The point is to pressure Obama now, while we still have the power. Otherwise, after the election it will be business as usual.

      •  that's a valid strategy debate: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marina

        Whether to a) give unconditional support now and ferocious protest after the election to get our demands met, or b) use our votes as bargaining chips now for commitments to meet our demands.  

        My inclination is to believe that (b) depends on having a large enough voting bloc that can move as a mass.  That existed in the days when most of America's workforce was unionized.  The head of AFL-CIO and/or Teamsters, could basically say "we will endorse if you give us X, otherwise we will not endorse," and that worked for Representatives, Senators, and Presidents.

        But now that the unions have been decimated (hint: never agree to pull your pants down for your boss, or you'll lose your bite and then your bark), that tactic doesn't work:

        Who, exactly, is in the position to call up the campaign and say "here's what we expect, demand, and require, in exchange for our support".....?

        Nobody, that's who.

        So in lieu of that, what's left?  Seems to me the only thing left is to be 100% gung-ho before the election, thereby bringing in as many votes as possible, and then immediately after the election: "OK, we did our part to get you elected, now here's what we need, and the or-else is that crowd of protesters outside who are fully prepared to camp out in the halls of Congress if necessary."

        "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Fri Aug 10, 2012 at 09:54:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That didn't work last time (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marina

          And you might check the Statute of Limitations for fraud in NY.  The only way to be heard is BEFORE the elections.

          You can't change the world without conflict. -- Markos

          by ZAPatty on Fri Aug 10, 2012 at 10:15:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  That is a major drawback (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          G2geek, aliasalias

          but we need to get around it. If it takes organizing into coalitions to make demands, we have to do it. If we have to set aside some of our differences to do so, let's be prepared to do that for the time being.

          •  sure, I'd go for that. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            marina

            Up to a point.  Because after all if we're going to make demands, we may as well peg the meter at the left side of the dial, and recognize in a pragmatic sense that we are not going to get everything we want.  

            Start out by making strong demands, and you'll get much more than if you start out by making weak demands.

            "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

            by G2geek on Fri Aug 10, 2012 at 12:25:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, that'll happen. (0+ / 0-)

      The case for Obama is that he doesn't suck as much as Romney. But that's a pretty valid argument, given that we have to have an election.

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