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View Diary: Running Against Paul Ryan is Exactly What Team Obama Wanted (Updated) (167 comments)

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  •  Parse the Rhetoric (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    squarewheel, dksbook

    Very precise and careful.  NYT and Ezra Klein both have fluff pieces on GB and Bowles.  More telling was O's disappointment that his D's do not get credit for their willingness to make "bold cuts" to Social Security and Medicare balanced by some new revenue (tip change).  Our choices are one team seeking to eliminate Medicare and Social Security and the other team ready to deal the programs away...  Parse team O's precise rhetoric and show me the vigorous defense.  It is not there.

    •  overton window, etc.. n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dracowyrm, little lion

      big badda boom : GRB 080913

      by squarewheel on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 10:15:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Demonstrably false. (20+ / 0-)

      You do not appear to understand the difference between posture and position.

      Obama had a chance to chop Medicare and Social Security, during the debt ceiling hostage crisis. And many were doing a Chicken Little number that he was going to do exactly that.

      What did he actually negotiate? A deal that EXEMPTS those programs from cuts if a commission that everyone knew was going to fail did, indeed, fail.

      What gets cut? The military, and other programs. But Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are expressly exempted. And no one but Obama could possibly have been responsible for this, because he along was negotiating on the side of the Democrats, and Republicans would have LOVED to gut entitlements.

      Obama is the hero of that face-off that DEFENDED SS, Medicare and Medicaid. It's an indisputable fact.

      Have a flagon and discuss the news of the day at the sign of the Green Dragon

      by Dracowyrm on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 10:23:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "alone", not "along" nt (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        G2geek

        Have a flagon and discuss the news of the day at the sign of the Green Dragon

        by Dracowyrm on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 10:24:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Eleventh Chess (0+ / 0-)

          Give me a break.

          •  Just because you can't follow it doesn't mean (12+ / 0-)

            it isn't happening.

            What I wrote above is ironclad. No one but Barack Obama could have protected the entitlement programs in those negotiations. He's the one who did it.

            Available data would indicate your fear is paranoia.

            Have a flagon and discuss the news of the day at the sign of the Green Dragon

            by Dracowyrm on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 10:42:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Show me O's Boilerplate (0+ / 0-)

              Provide quotes with links.  Staunch defender rhetoric was scrubbed off campaign site in late 2008.  It's not there.

            •  No, your assertion is anything BUT ironclad. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              splashoil

              Obama proposed Simpson/Bowles. He promoted S/B. He resuscitated S/B when it was on its death bed. S/B is now being bandied about as the compromise to get us out of the draconian debt deal. Nancy Pelosi was singing the PRAISES of S/B as recently as two months ago.

              Yes, Ryan wants to KILL Medicare and SS in their current forms, but the President is far from an ardent protector of them.

              Republican Healthcare Plan: Everyone will be encouraged to move to Chris Collins' district, where noone dies of cancer.

              by WisePiper on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 10:57:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Suggest you read it again. (9+ / 0-)

                Posture.

                Position.

                Two different things.

                S/B and the "SuperCongress" were Kabuki theater, and Obama knew it. He knew there weren't going to lead to anything. We ALL knew that.

                Obama had an opportunity to hurt the programs you claim to care about, but he did the diametric opposite, protecting them from being hurt in automatic cuts after a commission he knew was going to fail did, indeed, fail.

                You have zero evidence to support your critique. The facts on the ground are that given the opportunity, the President SAVED those programs rather than letting them be eroded.

                There is no debating this. You have no grounds for this claim.

                Have a flagon and discuss the news of the day at the sign of the Green Dragon

                by Dracowyrm on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 11:16:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Linked Quotes (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                WisePiper

                Credit Where it is due:

                The news media have played a crucial role in Mr. Obama’s career, helping to make him a national star not long after he had been an anonymous state legislator. As president, however, he has come to believe the news media have had a role in frustrating his ambitions to change the terms of the country’s political discussion. He particularly believes that Democrats do not receive enough credit for their willingness to accept cuts in Medicare and Social Security, while Republicans oppose almost any tax increase to reduce the deficit.
                Ezra Klein, the Admin Mouthpiece:
                This wouldn’t be the first time Bowles got a call from the White House. The Obama administration tapped Bowles to co-chair the National Commission of Fiscal Responsibility and Reform — better known as the Simpson-Bowles Commission. Word on the street is that this wouldn’t even be the second time Bowles got a call from the White House. They’ve felt him out about joining the administration in a more formal capacity before. But he wasn’t interested.

                Bowles, a former chief of staff to President Bill Clinton, had built up a huge storehouse of bipartisan credibility as co-chair of the Simpson-Bowles Commission. He didn’t want to join the administration in 2011, when joining the administration meant trench warfare with the Republicans. And as Bowles assiduously worked to show off how bipartisan he was — lavishly complimenting Rep. Paul Ryan, for instance — the administration cooled on him in return.

                But next year is different. Next year is the year the fiscal deal has to be made. And if Bowles is Treasury Secretary, he’ll be the guy making the deal. That’s way better than leading a commission. It’s even better than being well-liked by both sides. That’s legacy material.

                Please find me that reassuring boilerplate so I can sleep!
                •  Eleventh Chess (0+ / 0-)

                  Above quotes were just dog whistles for Wall Street contributions to the campaign, right?

                •  You really aren't listening, are you? (11+ / 0-)

                  You are reading a paranoid fantasy into selected news clips, but the fantasy has been proven incorrect. Instead, when given an opportunity to hurt the programs you are concerned about--and a golden excuse for doing it..."hey, I was over a barrel, blame the Republicans"...instead, Obama safeguarded all of these programs and ate the Republicans' lunch.

                  You're wrong about this. Demonstrably wrong. You have to decide which is more important to you: clinging to a fear that is out of step with the facts, or changing your opinion. Up to you.

                  Have a flagon and discuss the news of the day at the sign of the Green Dragon

                  by Dracowyrm on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 11:23:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Reince Priebus, Scott Walker, ... (8+ / 0-)

                  ... Mitt Romney, Ed Gillespie, Paul Ryan and you have made that same argument today! Good for you!

                  President Obama situated himself and his Democratic colleagues as reasonable adults versus the obstructionist crazy children. I wish you could see that, as it's pretty damn obvious. It has really worked to perfection! Do you know why President Obama is trusted more than Romney? Why his favorables compare so well with the opposition (Romney/Republican House)?

                  We are now getting the debate that will expose the Republicans for what they are: Shameless, bad-mouthing the United States of America, cynical, greedy and childish. I hope to see you on the good side of that debate!

                  I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

                  by Tortmaster on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 12:40:26 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Unfair mischaracterization of my comment. (0+ / 0-)

                    Priebus et al are claiming Obama cut $700b out of Medicare, with the implication being that this was money robbed from Medicare beneficiaries. Nothing could be further from the truth, and noone here is making that argument.

                    Republican Healthcare Plan: Everyone will be encouraged to move to Chris Collins' district, where noone dies of cancer.

                    by WisePiper on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 01:37:42 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Ugh, Bowles likes Ryan more than he likes (0+ / 0-)

                  Obama.

                  http://news.yahoo.com/...

                  Just like Democrats to create a commission with a right-winger from Wyoming and a right-winger from Blue-Doggia.

                  There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

                  by upstate NY on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 08:33:06 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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