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View Diary: Book review: Anat Shenker-Osorio's 'Don't Buy It' (136 comments)

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  •  some Progressives are (unfortunately) academics (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pluto, Blue Knight

    and need to be role models for those apparent idiots even in DK who for example smoke enough dope to not understand that criminals also traffic it and disrespect the notion that being an organic intellectual is not a bad thing. Being a "regular person" is not unfamiliar considering that some in DL for example hold quite seemingly contradictory views such as the RKBA folks.

    Whatever the impetus, we need to cut it out. Progressives’ public statements often make us sound too much like academics and too seldom like regular people. Further, as we’re generally fighting about and for issues of fairness, security, livelihood, and well-being for all, we’re long overdue in conveying to audiences that we’re talking to you.

    Don't roof rack me bro', Now the brown's comin' down; Präsidentenelf-maßschach; "Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) "Ensanguining the skies...Falls the remorseful day".政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

    by annieli on Sun Aug 26, 2012 at 04:33:31 PM PDT

    •  Speaking as a professor, I'm a bit surprised to (11+ / 0-)

      learn that I'm not a "regular person" (whatever that is), but, on the other hand, it probably wouldn't do a candidate much good to sound like me lecturing on differential equations...

      But the root problem is really that too much of politics is driven by emotion and culture rather than by reason and philosophy. I think the reason progressives often lose the messaging wars is because they naively imagine that people actually study and understand issues and therefore will agree with us. We just don't connect with people who keep themselves in the dark about public policy and the state of the nation.

      I believe that in every country the people themselves are more peaceably and liberally inclined than their governments. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

      by Blue Knight on Sun Aug 26, 2012 at 05:32:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's not a solvable problem. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Expecting human beings to conduct democracy without things being driven by emotion and culture means expecting humans to evolve overnight into Vulcans. We're not, by and large, rational beings, and if we're going to have a democracy, that means fighting on irrational terms.

        (I agree with you that this is the problem. I just get a bit annoyed when people seem to think of the emotionality of politics as something we need to change rather than an immutable fact about the political battleground.)

        Code Monkey like freedom / Code Monkey like peace and justice too
        Code Monkey very nerdy man / With big warm fuzzy bleeding heart
        Code Monkey like you!

        Formerly known as Jyrinx.

        by Code Monkey on Sun Aug 26, 2012 at 08:32:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Even very left-brained people are not rational (0+ / 0-)

          The rationality they do achieve is through rigorous testing of hypotheses, and typically through co-operation with others. Much of the rest is rationalization of things they believe for poor reasons or the same ones right-brained people tend to. By rationalization, I mean construction of reasons for something already believed. Everyone can fool themselves. Almost everyone can apply critical thinking, few have the luxury of doing so.

      •  People aren't stupid.... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ConfusedSkyes, ebohlman, mythatsme

        ....but they rarely have the time or inclination to study detail-filled policy papers and get all the facts to every issue. Nuance is lost on people who only focus on politics a few months at a time in a four year stretch. So, direct, clear language is key to winning people over and making our case. Otherwise, people just suspect we're another politician trying to bullshit them. Or someone trying to prove how smart they are, rather than how they care about regular people.

      •  Close... (0+ / 0-)

        I don't think liberals are naive about how much or how little most people study the issues. I think the real problem is that many of our policy positions are nearly impossible -- or truly impossible -- to advocate for with a few simple sound bites. For example, I know of no simple argument that could convince a person that we need to stop pumping CO2 into the atmosphere if that person's intuition tells them falsely that CO2 is not a problem.

        (Notice that, in the above example, I'm not even referring to people who are exposed to the Fox News side of the climate change debate.)

        Let us all have the strength to see the humanity in our enemies, and the courage to let them see the humanity in ourselves.

        by Nowhere Man on Sun Aug 26, 2012 at 09:07:02 PM PDT

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