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View Diary: #Obama opposes French support for #Assad's opposition in #Syria (121 comments)

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  •  You do realize you just agreed with Clay? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Clay Claiborne

    There may be very good reasons for the Obama administration to take a different position than the French, but you just acknowledged taht on this question, the OBama administration has in fact taken a different position, which, in fact, is what he reported.

    Courtesy Kos. Trying to call on the better angels of our nature.

    by Mindful Nature on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 11:03:43 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  That is not what he reported (3+ / 0-)

      He reported this:

      #Obama opposes French support for #Assad's opposition in #Syria

      President Obama is not shown to "oppose" the French announcement..

      The French announcement concerned the formation of a shadow government, not with the concept of support for the resistance itself.

      So it is a lie piled atop a lie.

      So, in fact, you are trying to add credence to this double lie.

      Fortunately it looks like there are few buyers here in DKland.

      •  O.k. (0+ / 0-)

        let's try again, shall we?

        Hollande called for a government now.

        Nuland replied that that would be appropriate if and we get to that point.  That is not now as Hollande has called for.

        So, yes, Nuland's statement stands in opposition to Hollande's.

        But no, reality often suffers once the gang shows up.

        Courtesy Kos. Trying to call on the better angels of our nature.

        by Mindful Nature on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 11:28:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Oppose" is not "neutral" (0+ / 0-)

          Nor is a call to form a shadow gov't the same thing as supporting the opposition effort itself.

          LEARN G_D ENGLISH

          •  That's hella ironic (0+ / 0-)

            from someone who seems to have completely failed to comprehend the basics of the administrations statement on it's position (i.e., it is too early to form a government).  That's not neutral, it's in complete disagreement.

            Neutral would be "now is fine, later is fine" which is NOT what the administration actually said.

            Courtesy Kos. Trying to call on the better angels of our nature.

            by Mindful Nature on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 12:21:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  That's some very creative spinning you're doing. (5+ / 0-)

          Look at the title of this diary:

          #Obama opposes French support for #Assad's opposition in #Syria
          Wow! It looks like France wants to support the opposition in Syria, but Obama is opposing the French efforts. Therefore Obama must be pro-Assad, right?

          But the actual issue relates to the timetable for officially recognizing an opposition government, as you acknowledge here:

          Nuland replied that that would be appropriate if and we get to that point.  That is not now as Hollande has called for.

          So, yes, Nuland's statement stands in opposition to Hollande's.

          Clay Claiborne is once again trying to falsely accuse Obama of being overtly pro-Assad. There are many legitimate ways to disagree with the Obama administration's handling of Syria, but nobody should be defending the kind of outright bullshit that Claiborne has been peddling.
          •  Except that he isn't accusing (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Clay Claiborne

            The administration of any such thing

            And he's just about the only person consistently keeping this on the radar when we have fair number of Assad apologists here.  And it is hard to ignore that the administrations position has been typically tepid.  People keep accusing Clay of lying when in fact the administration has opposed arming the FSA which only helps one party.  Maybe Obama is right but it sure as hell is a valid criticism.  I know that many of out commenters will tolerate no criticism of the regime whatsoever and that need to go

            Courtesy Kos. Trying to call on the better angels of our nature.

            by Mindful Nature on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 12:02:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  As he did not in the diary you cite (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Clay Claiborne

            In fact, Claiborne says the following at the end:

            In our culture a "green light" tells you when it is safe to do something, and while it can't be said that what Assad is doing has Obama's approval, he would prefer that he resigns, it can at the very least be said that he has Obama's acquiescence.
            In otherwords, Claiborne's conclusion is exactly NOT what you claim. Instead, here we see, yet again, more distortions and fairly false accusations based on intentional misrepresentations by the administrations more zealous defenders.

            I don't see why I should dignify any of this with anything other than a sharp call out.

            Courtesy Kos. Trying to call on the better angels of our nature.

            by Mindful Nature on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 12:35:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh, FFS. It's right in the title of the diary. (4+ / 0-)
              UPDATED: #Obama "green lights" #Assad's slaughter in #Syria
              The scare quotes don't reverse the meaning of his claim. That's complete nonsense.
              •  FFS indeed (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                indycam

                In fact, CC explains precisely what he means in the diary that standing aside and taking the threat of military intervention removes one potential consideration from Assad's calculation by putting the red line not at massacring civilians, but only in using chemical weapons to do so.

                As CC explains, that assertion arguably sent the signal that is was 'safe" for Assad to do so.  As he also explains, that is how CC uses the term.

                So, we see, yet again, more distortions and smears from the administration's defenders.  I don't agree with everything CC writes, but I really disagree with the mugging he's getting here.  It's a total disgrace.

                Courtesy Kos. Trying to call on the better angels of our nature.

                by Mindful Nature on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 01:39:08 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I would also add that Israel has supported Assad (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Mindful Nature

                  in much the same way.

                  They have signaled to him that he should have no fear in removing troops from the Golan Heights at this time, so he can feel free to use them to suppress the revolution.

                  If they wanted to support his overthrow, they could have easily done some "saber rattling" that would make him thing twice about moving those troops.

                  I know that for this observation I will now be charged with promoting Israeli saber rattling, but what can one do?

                  Some people here are so confused between objective reality and subjective wishes that they confuse the two.

                  For example, if I make the observation that no one is planning to implement a no-fly zone anytime soon. an assessment that is hard to avoid for anyone in touch with the political realities of the moment, I'll bet that I would be immediately accused of supporting a no-fly zone.

                  But as I said, what can one do?

                  Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

                  by Clay Claiborne on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 03:49:01 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  If you read my post carefuly (0+ / 0-)

      you will realize that I am not disputing what he said but the way he said it.

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