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View Diary: American Meteorological Society: Climate Change is here and caused by humans (54 comments)

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  •  it's actually a major problem and it has hurt (0+ / 0-)

    our ability to build public consensus on climate change and what needs to be done.

    Sure, big-business interests and the GOP own 95% of the blame--but misapplication and misunderstanding of the concepts (such as Gore and Katrina) hurt rather than help our cause.

    •  BS - good luck with yr concern trolling. (0+ / 0-)

      An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

      by mightymouse on Wed Aug 29, 2012 at 10:37:41 AM PDT

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      •  f-- off. (0+ / 0-)

        what a slimeball comment.

        •  it is what it is. (0+ / 0-)

          there is a decent argument that hurricanes are affected by climate change.

          see here for example:

          Future Projections Show Less Frequent Hurricanes, But More Intense Ones

          UCS climate scientist Brenda Ekwurzel recently reviewed the factors that affect the intensity of tropical cyclones, the general name given to hurricanes and typhoons. Warmer ocean water, for instance, increases tropical cyclone intensity. Meanwhile, high vertical wind shear can cause tropical cyclones to lose intensity and dissipate. Future projections of a warming climate tend to show a decrease in the frequency of tropical cyclones globally. Findings regarding future tropical cyclone intensity vary by region. A recent review found that all studies examined projected increasing intensity in the West Pacific ocean basin. Most studies showed a similar pattern for the Atlantic Ocean basins. Meanwhile, study conclusions for the East Pacific and North Indian Ocean basins were less clear.

          When the IPCC examined the evidence linking human-driven climate change to the past fifty years of extreme weather, it found some of the strongest evidence for links to coastal flooding and more intense precipitation. The findings for tropical cyclones were less clear, in part, because of a lack of robust historical data over a long enough time period.

          which seems in line with this storm - it had a hard time getting organized, despite the warm water. However, once it did, it was large and rain-filled.

          There is really not a need to go around telling people to modify their statements. First, it is reasonable to expect some link betw climate change and a weather event. Second, despite your concern, the other side doesn't care what we say.

          An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

          by mightymouse on Wed Aug 29, 2012 at 11:17:04 AM PDT

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          •  I posted here to offer perspective on scale-- (0+ / 0-)

            not to get in a stupid war.

            And when did I ever suggest that hurricanes are not affected by climate?  All weather is a function of climate.  That's different than saying: If climate change weren't happening, then this hurricane would be weaker.

            (I'm well aware of the study you cite, btw--I've read it.)

            My problem is with people who completely overstate cause and effect--and do so from the reference point of individual events that could well happen in ANY given year.

            Take this one.  If this storm had been moving towards the northwest at 12mph--rather than stalling at 6mph or less, by the way, the story would be completely different.  And actually this hurricane season has been extremely active--but with less intense storm.  Compare this to 2005--which was active with EXTREMELY intense storms.  

            I think the American Meteorology Association's statement is fantastic.  But I also encourage meteorologists to operate effectively within that framework.  If you see that as 'concern trolling'--well...that's you.

            •  who is completely overstating cause & effect? (0+ / 0-)

              you are issuing a caution that is not necessary.

              your argument about Gore and Katrina misses the boat. an honest listing of reasons why the US hasn't addressed climate change doesn't include over-advocacy. so we don't need someone telling us "be careful." it's not a big deal.

              and this:

              And when did I ever suggest that hurricanes are not affected by climate?
              above in this thread you imply that this storm is not news from a climate change perspective.

              and you say:

              All weather is a function of climate.  That's different than saying: If climate change weren't happening, then this hurricane would be weaker.
              did anyone say that, without a qualifier? I would say "may well" in place of "would."

              it may be the case that cat 1 hurricanes pack more rain and cover a wider area than they used to. since big storms in the aggregate pack more precip now, it makes sense that hurricanes to do so.

              An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

              by mightymouse on Wed Aug 29, 2012 at 12:32:16 PM PDT

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