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View Diary: 'We're not generating enough angry white guys' (230 comments)

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  •  No. Just outlawing birth control (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    qofdisks, a2nite

    and promoting adoption as an "alternative" to abortion (a pernicious defense of adoption that has even shown up in this venue.)

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 07:10:42 PM PDT

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    •  Why does adoption need defending? nt (7+ / 0-)

      The founding fathers knew of the mutually corrupting influences of Church and state, wisely sending them to opposite corners.

      by emidesu on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 07:50:16 PM PDT

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      •  Interesting question. It gave me pause-- (4+ / 0-)

        which is why I'm tipping you.

        There is a growing school of thought that adoption, despite cases where it works out "well," is an inherently exploitative institution.

        It's the position of some, especially certain birth-mothers, that birth-mothers are, in fact, pressured to give up rights to their babies. Market forces dictate the need for healthy, Caucasian infants, the reasoning goes, and "charitable" agencies in society, such as churches, facilitate their supply. Efforts in society to restrict the availability of abortion and birth-control, directly facilitate the supply of infants for adoption, which is profiting somebody. Social stigma attached to unwed motherhood, and economic difficulties encountered by a young single mother, also serve somebody's profit motive. Given an accidental pregnancy, then, birth-mothers "chose" adoption only from a range of untenable options.

        This reasoning surprised me, when I first came up against it in this venue. But I thought about it more, and have come to sympathize with it. So it actually offends me to here adoption openly touted as an "alternative" to abortion.

        It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

        by karmsy on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 08:18:58 PM PDT

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        •  Seems I read here recently that the Catholic (5+ / 0-)

          church had this thing sewed up in the 50's. Homes for unwed mothers, babies being adopted in other states etc....

          if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

          by mrsgoo on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 10:38:34 PM PDT

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          •  Locally, the diocese is really strapped. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mrsgoo

            The lawsuits brought by victims of priest-abuse, and declining membership, have all but done them in. So they got into the funeral-home business, incorporated as a nonprofit, charitable enterprise. It's lucrative. So the Catholic Church isn't new to milking social needs for coin.

            It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

            by karmsy on Mon Sep 03, 2012 at 06:42:14 AM PDT

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        •  I was adopted, thank God (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cordgrass, MKSinSA, karmsy, david78209

          I think most people who were adopted had better lives than if they had stayed with birth mothers. Why? Adopter want the baby, and they go through a lot to get that baby. They are generally ready to be a parent.

          My dog is a member of Dogs Against Romney: He rides inside.

          by adigal on Mon Sep 03, 2012 at 05:40:03 AM PDT

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          •  Interesting point. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            desert rain, david78209

            Indeed, there are cases where this is apparently true, that I know of. I also know personally of many cases where the adoptive family was absolutely raging-dysfunctional, e.g., alcoholic, incestuous, abusive, and perhaps provided the child as tenuous a start in the world as the unwed mother who "couldn't" raise her baby, would have.

            It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

            by karmsy on Mon Sep 03, 2012 at 06:35:21 AM PDT

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            •  The numbers run overwhelmingly against your (0+ / 0-)

              personal anecdotes.

              •  Oh? (0+ / 0-)

                Yes, my information is anecdotal. I didn't know statistics were available. But at least I'm not setting myself up as any kind of authority on this subject. I am providing no statistics about adoption. But I am talking to people who directly, personally know about adoption, who have been involved in it, who KNOW MORE THAN I DO about it.

                If you have hard statistics to back up your claims, I'd love it if you wrote a diary about adoption. On the other hand, if you are providing neither statistics, nor any evidence you've actually talked to people directly involved in adoption--most importantly, birth mothers--then, by all means, pontificate away, giving yourself a real venue. See how well your effort goes down here.

                It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

                by karmsy on Tue Sep 04, 2012 at 06:54:58 AM PDT

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        •  well, your post offends me (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ebohlman

          Offends me greatly.  I never thought I would see the day when adoption was attacked as being a harmful thing.

          •  Well, I guess you can't win 'em all. n/t (0+ / 0-)

            It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

            by karmsy on Mon Sep 03, 2012 at 06:27:33 AM PDT

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          •  Adoption of children that are abused (0+ / 0-)

            Or otherwise harmed is a good thing.

            But, if the mother is forced to give birth so that some can sell the child to others for a profit, that's not a good thing.

            It hurts the mother, who is cut off of Medicaid/health care or other help immediately after giving birth if she gives the baby up, and the ones selling the child don't really care about what happens to either the child or the mother. All they want is the money.

            Women create the entire labor force.

            by splashy on Tue Sep 04, 2012 at 03:17:51 AM PDT

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