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  •  caution y'all: Maher is an anti-vaccination CT-er. (18+ / 0-)

    Maher subscribes to anti-vaccination conspiracy theory, and promotes it.

    That killed his credibility in my book.

    If someone wants to believe the moon is made of green cheese, or that evolution isn't real, that's their problem.

    But when they foist memes on the public that contribute to outbreaks of measles, chicken pox, and now epidemic whooping cough, that's way over the line.

    Maher may have his uses for now, but we need to replace him with someone who has respect for science and public health.  The sooner the better.

    "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

    by G2geek on Sat Sep 01, 2012 at 07:43:11 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I did not know that! (4+ / 0-)

      Well that makes him a lot less funny.

      The universe may have a meaning and a purpose, but it may just specifically not include you.

      by Anne Elk on Sat Sep 01, 2012 at 08:16:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I've never thought of him as the "font of (41+ / 0-)

      wisdom". I disagree with him frequently.
       However, he does ask questions which threaten strongly held assumptions.

      So he may be spectacularly wrong about one thing and incisively brilliant about another.

      It's science that will trump his theories about vacs.

      I say use his capabilities and strenghts, but be conscious of his (and anyone else's ) limitations.

      So, as he's taking down a brazen grifter hoodlum like D'Souza, be aware that he's got his head in his ass on ohter topics. G2geek's comment is indispensible in this discussion. '
      In other words, "It's all good. "

      You can't make this stuff up.

      by David54 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 at 08:38:04 PM PDT

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    •  Sorry but that doesn't count him out. (12+ / 0-)

      As far as I'm concerned.

      "No, I'm being judged against the ideal. Joe Biden has a saying: 'Don't judge me against the Almighty, judge me against the alternative." --President Barack Obama, 12/11/11

      by smoothnmellow on Sat Sep 01, 2012 at 09:27:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  know anyone who's had whooping cough? (16+ / 0-)

        If they're an adult, they probably only had the coughing spells that are so relentless as to cause vomiting.

        If they're an infant they might have died from it.

        There are declared epidemic emergencies in Washington state and in California from this.

        Sanitation + vaccination = civilization.  Ma Nature doesn't give people a pass on those, and natural selection is ultimately what "counts people out."

        If Maher and his captive fools were only putting themselves at risk, my attitude would be "Darwin can have them."  But they're putting innocent people at risk: infants who haven't had their shots, and people of all ages whose immune systems are compromised.  

        That's like shooting a gun into the air to celebrate a holiday: you don't know where the bullets will come down, and if you do it in a crowded place, there's a good chance you'll kill someone.

        We are not so desperate that we have to accept all spokespeople for (some) progressive causes even to the extent of accepting those who deny basic science at the expense of others' lives.

        Maher should be replaced by Dood Abides or Jesse MoT.

        "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Sat Sep 01, 2012 at 09:48:35 PM PDT

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        •  I don't watch Bill Maher (18+ / 0-)

          for his opinions on scientific matters. I am in the medical field and I look to experts in that field when creating my opinions.
          When it comes to politics and social culture Maher is brilliant. No one is correct about everything that they believe.

          "I think of the right-wing Republicans as jihadists; they’re as crazy as those people. They want to destroy the country that we want to save." Paul Auster

          by zesty grapher on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 08:22:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You decide who are the "experts" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tonedevil

            To some people Maher is an "expert" on vaccination. Stupid people, perhaps, but we all have to share the environment with them and their unvaccinated children.

            Doesn't prevent us from appreciating his approach on topics we might agree with him on, but it's more than reasonable to call him out where he's wrong.

            from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

            by Catte Nappe on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 02:55:55 PM PDT

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        •  Right. I had 7 weeks of school lost from whooping (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gffish, Bridge Master, Tonedevil

          cough in 3rd grade.

          Maher is so wrong on that and it's dangerous.

          "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

          by Gorette on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 08:55:25 AM PDT

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        •  Except that (6+ / 0-)

          You can't possibly have a perfect "spokesperson" (which Maher has NEVER claimed to be... he does and says whatever he wants for his own personal reasons). Heck, not even the guy you vote for is perfect. I have a lot of beef with Obama, but I'm still voting for him.

          Maher isn't a doctor, so anyone who listens to him about vaccines is a moron. I don't listen to him to hear advice about medical stuff. I listen to him for the social commentary and his biting sarcasm towards Republicans.

          What a silly idea, asking for a perfect spokesman who represents us all. That's not even possible. You may agree with everything MoT says, but someone who also votes D may not. So who gets to pick the perfect spokesman, exactly?

          Meh.

      •  There are good arguments against some vaccinations (10+ / 0-)

        , imo. Many are no-brainers as you suggest, but some are not.

        It's not just science pushing vaccinations, it's Pharma.

        Blacklisting Maher for having an opinion you disagree with is your right, of course.  But I'll keep watching.  He gets people thinking, and laughing, and very often he just out and nails it!

        •  I have to agree with you here. (0+ / 0-)

          I find the rejection of vaccination as an important aspect of public health to be troubling for sure - we've eradicated some real baddies and really have no concept of the danger of communicable diseases of yesteryear.

          But, and you nailed it here, hooper, the business of vaccinations cannot be very neat and tidy.

          Grow or die is not good policy for public health, and that's what's running it right now. Margins are important, and who's to say a little melamine or whatnot is going to get anybody into trouble?

          I mean anti-vaccinators are nutters with zero creds...

          Seems like a place where we might try to embrace the anti-vaccinators and put some more daylight on the process - historically, economically and scientifically.

          Peace~

          Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

          by k9disc on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 04:03:28 AM PDT

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        •  No, there aren't (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Matt Z, Gorette, K S LaVida, Tonedevil

          Although I agree Maher can be right on one thing and wrong on another, there is no dimension whatsoever in which vaccinations are less that the greatest thing since fire, the wheel, and writing.

        •  I haven't seen any. n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tonedevil

          "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

          by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 10:12:46 AM PDT

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    •  No one is perfect. Especially in the area they (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Quicklund, elwior, Hobbitfoot, Idaho83702

      have no expertise in.

      •  That type of "not perfect" kills people. (11+ / 0-)

        That type of "not perfect" is like driving drunk.

        Not acceptable under any circumstances.

        "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Sat Sep 01, 2012 at 11:10:15 PM PDT

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        •  True but I'm not sure how much people actually (6+ / 0-)

          listen to Maher on this.

          •  plenty. liberal Marin County California.... (13+ / 0-)

            ... has one of the highest rates of non-vaccinated kids in California, and it's a hot-spot of vaccine-preventable diseases.

            Maher's nonsense makes anti-vax CT "acceptable" among liberals & progressives who should know better, and provides them with an excuse.  Not all by himself of course, but in conjunction with other purveyors of anti-scientific crap: the stuff is circulated widely by anti-vax CTers and read by people who are "concerned," and the presence of Maher in the mix adds weight to it among liberals & progressives.

            We need to fight this stuff anywhere it appears.  It's more pernicious than creationism masquerading as "intelligent design," because it kills people.  

            It's no different to Maher going on TV and telling the world he routinely drives after drinking and hasn't had an accident yet.  

            "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

            by G2geek on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 12:24:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You are so right. (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              G2geek, kalmoth, Matt Z, Tonedevil

              The universe may have a meaning and a purpose, but it may just specifically not include you.

              by Anne Elk on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 12:41:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Vaccines are extremely important and people who (9+ / 0-)

              refuse to vaccinate their own children are adding to the possibility of major epidemics that could kill many more than would be adversely affected by a vaccine.

              People who reject the science of vaccines don't know history, don't know that in the pre-vaccine days a family might have two out of six children make it to adulthood. Walk through an old, old graveyard sometime and look at all the tiny headstones in many family plots.

              That said, when you do take your kids for the vaccine and they hand you the information sheet that lays out the possible side effects it can be frightening. But the odds of any one of those things happening to your kid are miniscule compared to the greater good the vaccine does.

              I remember when the chicken pox vaccine first came out. My youngest was about a month shy of the age he could get it and chicken pox broke out at his day care. Some mothers were talking about having a chicken pox party so all their kids would get it and get it over with. I rolled my eyes at their ignorance because when I was a kid a girl down the street died of complications from chicken pox.  Even though the incidents of major complications from chicken pox are rare, they do exist. And there's no way to predict that your kid won't be the one. It's not statistically insignificant if your kid is the one affected. My son didn't get chicken pox and a month later got the shot.

    •  Maher is an entertainer, just as (13+ / 0-)

      Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are. They are not necessarily smarter our more educated than many of us are. We should keep that in mind.

      "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

      by AaronInSanDiego on Sat Sep 01, 2012 at 10:24:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  so is Rush Limbaugh. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KayCeSF, kalmoth, caryltoo, MRA NY, Matt Z

        And there is no excuse for promoting something that kills innocent people.  

        If anti-vaxers only put themselves at risk, I'd be all in favor of letting them have all the radio & TV exposure they can get.  After all, Earth is overpopulated by about 50%, and voluntary self-cull is one of the most humane options for fixing it.

        But they put other people at risk of disability and death, as badly as if they were advocating drunk driving, and that's not acceptable.

        Science trumps entertainment.

        "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Sat Sep 01, 2012 at 11:13:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why did he defend science in this last show (3+ / 0-)

          about climate change and then he discredits science about vaccinations?

          I find that odd.  

          I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

          by KayCeSF on Sat Sep 01, 2012 at 11:31:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  because humans aren't consistent. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kalmoth, IreGyre, KayCeSF

            That's not odd, it's commonplace.  

            If the beliefs in question are harmless (astrology, etc.), it doesn't hurt anyone to promote them.  

            But this isn't astrology: this is a public health emergency.

            "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

            by G2geek on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 12:25:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Science does not = vaccinations. I'm not an (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            drewfromct, DamselleFly, Idaho83702

            "anti-VAXer", but I do see absolutism in your comments here.  

            Imo most vaccines are safe & useful.  That doesn't mean they all are.  Believing in vaccinations is a religious impulse, cloaked in science.  Using them when they make sense is rational.

            But of course Pharma would have us take all their products, all the time.  Klonopin, everyone?  How about a shingles vaccination, it's on special and now can be delivered by your pharmacy!  

            •  You can't get the shingles vaccine until you're 60 (2+ / 0-)

              I've known several people who've had shingles and believe me if there had been a way to prevent it they would have taken it. It can be very, very painful and debilitating.

              •  I had no idea there is a shingles vaccination. (0+ / 0-)

                This is good to know!  Thanks!

                I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

                by KayCeSF on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 11:52:43 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I suffer from PHN (0+ / 0-)

                ...a complication from shingles that means the nerves are damaged in such a way that they constantly send pain signals to the brain.

                This started when I was 34. I'm 41 now, and the condition - which often spontaneously self-corrects - appears to be the rare kind that is permanent. So I'm lucky 3 times over; first for developing shingles at such an early age, then for developing the PHN complication, and finally for the long time it's gone on.

                If I could have in any way prevented this, I would have.

                The problem with going with your gut as opposed to your head is that the former is so often full of shit. - Randy Chestnut

                by lotusmaglite on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 12:41:02 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  I had shingles, (3+ / 0-)

              a very mild case of it, in my forties, and when I found out that I could get a vaccination against it now that I'm over 60, I did so immediately (which was actually about 6 weeks later, because there's a waiting list that long).

              I am thrilled that I'll never get it again.

              "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

              by sidnora on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:38:52 AM PDT

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            •  Were you speaking to G2geek or me? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              hooper

              I only made the one comment about Maher.  ??

              I'm not an absolutist anyway.  I agree Pharma would sell us everything including SOMA if they could.  Having said that, I do believe the vaccinations are terribly important.  I have a very East meets West Doctor who is very holistic in her views, and she's horrified that children are not getting vaccines.  

              I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

              by KayCeSF on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 11:46:30 AM PDT

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        •  Rush DopeAddict promotes plenty of (0+ / 0-)

          crap that causes death! He's a living example of major chemical addiction! Maher's buzz could be he's scared of needles. I know I hate them. I watch him cos he's funny, and he is a radical supporter of climate change! Kinda ironic cos he's a lifelong bachelor w/no kids by choice1 T and r!!

          Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

          by orlbucfan on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 10:12:23 AM PDT

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    •  Bill Maher is credibly a very funny guy (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DruidQueen

      OTOH I have never seen him as anything other than a funny guy. He is not the thinker fellow VFG John Stewart is. So for my money there was no credibility to lose - outside the 'predictably funny' sort of credibility.

      •  he could be credibly funnily telling everyone... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Quicklund, K S LaVida

        .... that drunk driving is OK, and it would have the same effect.

        Some things just aren't funny.  Like the sound of a 3-year-old "whooping" until s/he turns blue.  

        "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 12:27:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm agreeing with you (0+ / 0-)

          I'm just saying he did not have far to fall in my eyes.  He is too inconsistent in his views to be considered a national moralist.

          OTOH I give him full props for coughing up One Thousand Large for the Obama PAC.

        •  If people are dumb enough to listen (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Idaho83702, cachola

          to Bill Maher on this issue, which is what you are claiming,
          then we really are a lost civilization. Because if they are listening to Maher, they aren't "tell me what to think" Republicans. Maher's core audience are liberals that like to analyze issues.

          I don't agree with you on the influence he has on this issue. And I surely hope those Marin County folks are doing other research before they form their opinions.

          "I think of the right-wing Republicans as jihadists; they’re as crazy as those people. They want to destroy the country that we want to save." Paul Auster

          by zesty grapher on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 08:28:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  also a food crackpot (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lotusmaglite

      Crossing the line from concern for pure food etc to blaming it for all ills.

    •  Do you have a quote? (0+ / 0-)

      I've heard this before, but I've never seen or heard Maher make an anti-vax statement. It's not outside the realm of possibility; after all, he's a tireless proponent of crazy food woo, but I have yet to see/hear it.

      The problem with going with your gut as opposed to your head is that the former is so often full of shit. - Randy Chestnut

      by lotusmaglite on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 12:35:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I agree with you on many things G2g, but (0+ / 0-)

      important as vaccines are, they still need work.

      The principal of my son's grade school had a daughter who will be mentally two forever from the results of her pertussis vaccination. She is not the only child I know of who has had an extremely adverse reaction to their vaccinations. Vaccinations save many lives and much disease, but pharma has an obligation to make them safer.

      Maher's opinions on vaccinations are just that - opinions. He did a great service in dismembering D'Sousa's assertions. I have seen the trailer to the film, and it's an abomination. And that abomination is running in the theater in my small town in Vermont. It has gone national, packed with lies as it is.

      Any intelligent attack on the film is to be lauded, not criticized.

      At the end of the day, people power is going to prevail. ~ Bernie Sanders 8/5/12

      by 4Freedom on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 03:02:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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