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  •  Salaried private sector workers (7+ / 0-)

    And I am talking about those with equivalent education often make many times more in income and do not suffer the same working conditions.  I could point you to relatives in Evanston, Naperville, etc who could be teaching right now if they wanted to give up their lifestyle.  

    •  Agreed (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tandrews

      People with graduate degrees in the private sector do make a lot more money if they have a job and I know plenty of PhDs in Silicon Valley that can't find a job in their field.

      So they end up working at Starbucks, Staples, etc. or just not working at all.

      This being said I was making the observation that given how badly many are hurting they will focus on the pay increase the most.

      Right or wrong the perception will most likely be negative given the tight economy so one has to pick their battles.

      As for teachers earning more it's a question of societal values.

      As for union employees with pensions/medical we got to the problem we see today in two ways.

      Firstly, unions have gotten more and more benefits every decade and the issue is politicians often do not set aside the money for such benefits in the year that they are earned.

      This is particularly true of pensions/medical for retired workers.  So when tax revenue gets really tight it's hard to pay for everything.

      Next the economy is so bad because of 30 years of bubble to bust economics heavily driven by bankers, greedy CEOs, etc.  Then endless war is another big drain.

      And I haven't seen Congress do much to address Wall Street's malfeasance.

      Congress along with Bush/Obama DOJs did nothing to prosecute Wall Street for the tech or mortgage Ponzi schemes.

      And if one doesn't go after bubble architects, which ruin economies and screw the average worker, then one can never get off the bubble to bust economy.

      Next - how does one pay for increased CTU salaries, smaller classes, etc.???

      Take money from other spend in the Chicago budget or increase taxes?

      If you reallocate money from elsewhere in the budget - people will fight.

      As for taxes - fine to soak those doing well, but there are simply not that many rich, which means you need to soak the middle class = very hard sell.

      "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

      by bcdelta on Mon Sep 10, 2012 at 10:43:00 AM PDT

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      •  I can't speak to Chicago specifically (4+ / 0-)

        but people tend to vastly over estimate public employee salaries, benefits and pensions.  Why do you think there are so many former teachers?  People go into public service knowing they will not get rich but with the atmosphere out there today you'd be crazy to consider teaching.

        •  Our value (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          glorificus, DaveW

          system is screwed up.  The people that do the most damage to the economy also earn the most.

          In the case of Wall Street, while one needs capital markets,  a lot of what they do adds no value to society, yet has caused a depression.

          Until lobbying is brought under control it will be impossible to pay people fairly.

          "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

          by bcdelta on Mon Sep 10, 2012 at 12:04:22 PM PDT

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      •  Yes, increase taxes (4+ / 0-)

        Most of what you're referring to doesn't have anything to do with the Teacher's Union.  The benefits the unions negotiate with management are negotiated and agreed to.  Just because it becomes hard to pay for now, or if politicians didn't fund the pensions they agreed to pay isn't really the fault of the union.  

        The union has made it clear that they understand the current fiscal climate and has negotiated in good faith.  But rather than keeping everyone's salaries down because of "the economy" we should instead be fighting for increased pay for all and government programs to get the economy going.  Increase the pay of a large group of people like a union represents and the entire economy benefits (in this case, the whole Chicago area economy will benefit).

        As for taxes, structure them so that those with the most pay more - there, problem solved.

        [Terrorists] are a dime a dozen, they are all over the world and for every one we lock up there will be three to take his place. --Digby

        by rabel on Mon Sep 10, 2012 at 11:25:00 AM PDT

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        •  Agreed (0+ / 0-)

          Not funding benefits in the year they were earned is solely the fault of politicians.

          But when this is done unchecked the end result is more and more of a given year's education budget has to pay for pensions and retired med benefits leaving less to pay current teachers.

          If you wish to increase salaries then you have to find the additional monies.

          Something not easy to do when tax revenues are in the cellar.

          It's also not the fault of private sector employees that CEOs outsource jobs to China or that Wall Street is raping the planet.

          In both cases I point the finger at politicians for allowing powerful lobbies to get away with behavior that has left our economy in tatters.

          So if teachers have to work more and because oil based inflation has driven up the cost of living - I can understand why they want  raise.

          But you still need to find the money to pay for it.

          As for having an economy that allows for people to earn a fair wage - won't happen until Congress stops only representing lobbyists.

          "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

          by bcdelta on Mon Sep 10, 2012 at 11:58:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Problem is, the taxes for schools (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sunny skies

          are among the most regressive kind there are. Property taxes in Chicago have doubled in the past few years. The sales tax is 10%. Both of these hit the people least able to sustain further increases. So taxpayers in the middle are not just being greedy when they resist more taxes for schools or anything else.

          Even though IL and Chicago are liberal hotbeds, the pols are scared to death of raising income taxes and of the State taking responsibility for school funding, as it should. The problem, like so many problems, ultimately goes back to the tax-hate propaganda we've suffered for so many decades that we've ended up paralyzed.

          Remember what happened when we turned the country over to that dumbass rich kid? So now we're thinking about doing it again? Really?

          by DaveW on Mon Sep 10, 2012 at 02:38:26 PM PDT

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          •  Sure (0+ / 0-)

            I'm suggesting we separate any necessary tax increase from the desire to pay decent wages to teachers. Did the IL legislature accept IL state lottery funds earmarked for education and then immediately decrease the state education budget by the amount of income from the state lottery?  Can we fund education through sales taxes of some kind?  A luxury tax for education?  There's many ways to fund government, we don't have to look at this through the single vision of property taxes.  

            Do we want to give teachers decent pay and benefits so we attract the very best?  If yes, then we go find out how to pay for it.  We always seem to have plenty of money for wars, why is that answer to funding education always that we can't afford it???

            [Terrorists] are a dime a dozen, they are all over the world and for every one we lock up there will be three to take his place. --Digby

            by rabel on Mon Sep 10, 2012 at 03:28:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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