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View Diary: Daniel Ellsberg: Danger of US Attack on Iran is "Real and Horrifying" (22 comments)

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  •  Look since I was around (13+ / 0-)

    and considered Daniel  Ellsberg a hero at the time it pains me to ask this. What information does he have that the rest of us do not that makes him believe we are in danger of attacking Iran especially before the election? Romney gets elected and yes I think all bets are off.

    Republican Family Values: Using the daughters from your first wife to convince everybody that your second wife is lying about your third wife.

    by jsfox on Tue Sep 11, 2012 at 12:08:01 PM PDT

    •  The only pre-election attack on Iran scenario (9+ / 0-)

      I can envision is where Bibi unilaterally attacks Iran in order to throw the election to Romney, which would be a huge gamble for Bibi and Israel because if Obama got elected anyway and/or the attack backfired in other ways (and it will), it would make Israel even less secure and end Bibi's political career except as the quasi-dictarorial leader of a pariah state. And I don't think that Israeli politicians and its military brass, who have more power than might be evident in the US, will be willing to risk that. And I'm sure that many of them realize that they'd be far worse off under Romney, a snake in the grass if ever there was one.

      But, of course, I may be wrong, and they really are that stupid.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Tue Sep 11, 2012 at 12:23:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You may detest Bibi's political views or indeed (0+ / 0-)

        anything else about him.  But he is the elected head of government of a parliamentary democracy.  Make your point by sticking to facts.

        Where are we, now that we need us most?

        by Frank Knarf on Tue Sep 11, 2012 at 12:45:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What on earth are you talking about? (6+ / 0-)

          What "facts" did I not stick to? It's not his decision alone to attack Iran, both legally and effectively. And the "quasi-dictarorial leader of a pariah state" line was a throwaway to an obviously remote and unlikely but still not completely impossible scenario that applies as much to the US as Israel.

          Put in terms you can perhaps better understand, it's not Bibi's decision alone to attack Iran given what you yourself wrote above about the sort of government Israel has, and the only way it could become his decision alone is if such a remote scenario unfolded, which is unlikely.

          As for a group decision by Israel's top political and military leaders to attack Iran, which is the only likely way that could happen, I suspect that there's simply not enough support for that in Israel's leadership given Obama's apparent opposition to such an attack.

          Of course, I could be wrong, but not because I supposedly don't know what kind of government Israel has. Sheesh.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Tue Sep 11, 2012 at 01:10:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  He is. And if he (as the elected head of a (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kovie

          sovereign state) decides that attacking Iran is something he needs to do, I will hope that that catastrophe resolves itself with as few casualties as is possible.

          But I would certainly hope and expect that the United States lets that play out as it may, without supporting either side in that presumptive idiocy at all.

          IMO, kovie is right in worrying that Bibi may have (sloppily, I think) concluded that he can railroad President Obama into jumping in to support an Israeli attack on Iran before the election.  I don't actually think that he would do that, but it's certainly conceivable that Bibi would imagine that he would.  And that's the danger, isn't it?

          Kovie's comment is completely within the universe of the factual.

    •  It's a fair question. I don't know. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      trumpeter

      Ellsberg moves in a world of insiders, past and present, who trust him and tell him things and know he will guard their confidence.  If he says now is not the time to relent, I suspect he has thought about it carefully, as he does about most things.    

      •  Really? (5+ / 0-)

        Ellesberg is now 82 years old and he no longer moves in the world of insiders. After the Pentagon Papers I'm not convinced he ever moved in the world of insiders again.

        Republican Family Values: Using the daughters from your first wife to convince everybody that your second wife is lying about your third wife.

        by jsfox on Tue Sep 11, 2012 at 01:00:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's obvious. Who would a whistleblower (0+ / 0-)

          or a someone inside who has whistleblower-like information go to?  Only another whistleblower.  Sheesh.

          •  Insider's not a whistleblower (0+ / 0-)

            And if I had information I wanted to get out I wouldn't choose to give it to an 82 year-old who worked in the Kennedy administration.  I seriously doubt he has better national security contacts than any of us have.

            History will be kind to us because we will write it.

            by Sky Net on Tue Sep 11, 2012 at 02:21:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  the only link to Ellsberg's word is on the (0+ / 0-)

        petition and it is a singular sentence; did I miss something?

        I, for one, would want to see more than a sentence before I built paragraphs explaining it.  For starters, without context, how do we know what his comment means?  

        Thanks for posting a link to Ellsberg's complete statement.

        Hurricanes, Flooding, Frying and Drying = Climate Change! Call it like it is! Our Survival Instinct can and will conquer Greed.

        by SeaTurtle on Tue Sep 11, 2012 at 03:10:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  He still has connections, (0+ / 0-)

      and a lot of people respect him.  That is probably the source of a lot of his information now.

      I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

      by trumpeter on Tue Sep 11, 2012 at 02:24:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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