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View Diary: Has Kos Become Pro-War? (141 comments)

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  •  We have a certain troop count in place. (0+ / 0-)

    If we simply pulled out in full, there would likely be negative repercussions.

    Any troop reductions need to happen in such a way that we mnaage troop safety and do not risk our troops safety by removing too many too fast.

    Plans are in place and a safe measured withdrawal is preferred to forcing an early withdrawal of too many and leaving others vulnerable.

    Of course, the people who want their ponies now with sparkles and glitter just want it over and want it over now so they criticize to a different extreme and claiming that now Democrats are the 'war party'. Having a thoughtful measured response to these situations is preferred to some knee-jerk 'pull them all out now' because I want it now mentality.

    President Obama did not put us there, and he may not have gotten us out as soon as I would prefer, but I believe his decisions are based in reality of existing situations and am thankful he is not willing to destabilize regions and cause other security issues by acting too quickly as well.

    -6.38, -6.21: Lamented and assured to the lights and towns below, Faster than the speed of sound, Faster than we thought we'd go, Beneath the sound of hope...

    by Vayle on Wed Sep 12, 2012 at 07:32:16 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  When Obama took office there were 32,700 troops (4+ / 0-)

      in Afghanistan. Last year there were 101,000.

      Last report to congress was a little over 132,000 private contractors.

      So I take issue with "President Obama did not put us there". When he campaigned,  he was going to add a few brigades.

      What we got instead was a full escalation and now 3 1/2 years later, we all know how well that is going, don't we?

      Oct 7 we start our 12th year of war in Afghanistan.....

      President Obama did not put us there, and he may not have gotten us out as soon as I would prefer, but I believe his decisions are based in reality of existing situations and am thankful he is not willing to destabilize regions and cause other security issues by acting too quickly as well.

      "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

      by allenjo on Wed Sep 12, 2012 at 07:39:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And Afghanistan had been ignored. (0+ / 0-)

        Were we supposed to just leave?

        If there was a mission there, we're supposed to fault him for making sure it got done?

        And no, Obama did not 'put us there'. He may not have started the fight, but he wasn't going to destabilize the region either.

        The former admin broke it, and like it or not - we now have to fix it and ensure we don't create more problems when we do leave. Speed and convenience does not replace a measured evaluation of what is required to ensure we do not cause further international destabilization by pulling out quickly based simply on being anti-war.

        Increasing troops in the region may not have been what many wanted, but again - Obama did not put us there. Had he simply pulled out with a snap decision and a fast withdrawal , where might we be? What consequences might we face for not taking the time needed? ...Consequences in lives, in national and international security, and consequences politically because of those choices made.

        -6.38, -6.21: Lamented and assured to the lights and towns below, Faster than the speed of sound, Faster than we thought we'd go, Beneath the sound of hope...

        by Vayle on Wed Sep 12, 2012 at 08:05:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If there was a mission there? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          joanneleon, aliasalias
          If there was a mission there, we're supposed to fault him for making sure it got done?

          "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

          by allenjo on Wed Sep 12, 2012 at 08:13:10 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wow, you don't like my wording...Go figure. (0+ / 0-)

            The mission has never been totally and pristine clear has it?
            Do I have misgivings? Sure do. But I don't know the exact situation over there either.

            If you want to call Democrats Warmongers, or agree with it, or refer to them as the War party then you go for it if that's what gets your through the day.

            Whatever.

            -6.38, -6.21: Lamented and assured to the lights and towns below, Faster than the speed of sound, Faster than we thought we'd go, Beneath the sound of hope...

            by Vayle on Wed Sep 12, 2012 at 08:24:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Go figure.... (3+ / 0-)
              Obama did not put us there. Had he simply pulled out with a snap decision and a fast withdrawal , where might we be? What consequences might we face for not taking the time needed?
              No one seems to know the exact situation over there. And soon it will get even more complicated with a new general, a new ambassador and a new "Karzai".

              Yes, Obama did put "us" there, no getting around that.
              Subtract 32,700 from 101,000 and add 132,000 private contractors.

              Where might we be?
              Could it be worse after the past 3 1/2 years? A soldier a day dying - for what? 2 billion dollars a week being spent.

               

              What consequences might we face for not taking the time needed?
              Big question- time needed? to stabilize a country?
              to build a national security force (50 billion spent by the US alone on training them with defecting rate of 1 out 7)

              Will we bankrupt our own country to keep Afghanistan afloat?

              We are into our second decade of war there.

              It is no secret that the war is not going well.

              We have only the hope that some 2 years down the line, it will get better. And the hope that we may end the war. The hope that the Afghans will stand up so the US can step down.

              "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

              by allenjo on Wed Sep 12, 2012 at 08:39:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  A major problem in Afghanistan is the corruption (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aliasalias, allenjo, too many people

      It's easy to see from this quote, from the Dexter Filkins Civil War article,

      But now, with the United States planning its withdrawal by the end of 2014, Nasir blames the Americans for a string of catastrophic errors. “The Americans have failed to build a single sustainable institution here,” he said. “All they have done is make a small group of people very rich. And now they are getting ready to go.”
      where our Afghanistan policy falls in U.S. Republican/Democrat terms.

      As an example of how our corruption works, the corner of Nangarhar province. It's an insurgent pathway from safe haven in Pakistan. So we made a deal with the Shinwari tribe. We directly funnel money to a small group of Shinwari powerbrokers. The Shinwaris will hunt for insurgents.

      To get the deal, we funneled money to specific Shinwari clans. So, we fractured the Shinwaris. We also, by funneling all the money to one side, inflamed wider tribal tensions.

      The corner of Nangarhar is now a place of frequent assassinations of Afghan government officials.

      U.S. media mostly calls it a US/Taliban war. But it's actually a tribal war. Which we created.

      All we've done is make a small group of Shinwaris very rich. And fueled a civil war.

      “It really stirred things up,” said one State Department official in Kabul, referring to George’s approach. “They were basically paying the Shinwaris to do nothing: ‘Congratulations, you get a pony.’ Now other tribes are saying, ‘Why don’t I get a pony?’ ”

      Washington Post, May 10, 2010

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