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View Diary: Dear Your Liberal Friend Who's Thinking of Voting for Anderson or Dr. Stein: (242 comments)

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  •  stop it. gore didn't lose. scotus voted him in, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sun dog, neaguy

    not the electorate.

    3rd party advocacy is a bannable offense on this site & this diary has already experienced several members being bojo'd.

    •  So now this is freerepublic? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neaguy, Abuhans, FutureNow

      Hey, I'm banned there too, so I might as well complete the collection.

      But go ahead and point out any advocacy in my comment.  Not that justification matters to authoritarians.

      Economic Left/Right: -7.38
      Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.00
      Two steps to the right of Trotsky.

      by jvance on Sun Oct 28, 2012 at 03:01:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  my bad. i misread "if you want to attract stein (0+ / 0-)

        voters . . . " to say, "if stein wants to attract voters . . . "

        trolldar's on high alert lately.

      •  That's how bad it's gotten (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FutureNow

        It's really interesting to see how this site is transitioning into the very right-wing sites they've disparaged.

        NOW SHOWING
        Progressive Candidate Obama (now - Nov 6, 2012)
        Bipartisan Obama returns (Nov 7, 2012)

        by The Dead Man on Sun Oct 28, 2012 at 04:31:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  excuse me, i know you were replying to jvance (2+ / 0-)

          but it seems you were either alluding to my accusation of 3rd party advocacy (which i admitted was an incorrect reading of the original comment) or you have an issue with kos' stated policy/remedy -- which is posted upthread.

          it's his site & no one is being forced to participate, so i don't understand why you would wish to be part of a site you disagree with.

          •  He prefers to do the weird martyr/progressiver (0+ / 0-)

            thanthou things, feigns frustration and disillusionment.......and then keeps coming back.

            vigilant "Dear Religion, this week I safely dropped a man from space while you shot a child in the head for wanting to go to school. Yours, Science."

            by GoGoGoEverton on Mon Oct 29, 2012 at 05:42:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  That's not winning, though (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jvance, bluezen

      Should Gore have become president in 2001? Almost certainly. Did the SCOTUS mismanage that decision (to be charitable)? Heck yes. But even if things had gone the other way, it was a close race. Considering Clinton's popularity and the state of the economy in 2000, it probably shouldn't have been. I like Al Gore, but his campaign was poorly run, and if it hadn't been, he wouldn't have given Bush a chance.

      Part of the reason was because Gore essentially wrote off the left wing. I was in college at the time, and not many people had anything nice to say about him. Part of this was basically beyond his control (Tipper's lobbying against the music industry, for instance), but a lot of it wasn't. One big problem was his choice of Joe Lieberman as a running mate: he may not have been as hated as he was post-2006, but he was recognized as a conservative voice, which hardly played well with a leftist college crowd.

      The weeks leading up to the election, where it became clear that Nader had the potential to impact the results, saw an increasing amount of "stupid lefties" talk. In the end, insulting the people you need to vote for you is not a winning strategy. All it does is suggest that you take them for granted. You don't feel that you need to address their concerns, but feel that they are obligated to give you their vote.

      The Democratic Party lost me after 2000. I changed my registration to Independent and almost swore off politics entirely. What brought me back was a very eloquent local Dem politician in 2002, who conceded that I was right, that the Democratic Party had gone astray. Rather than browbeat or attack me, though, he asked me, in all sincerity, to reconsider. Not because the Democrats were perfect, or even necessarily that good, but because they needed people like me. People who would drag the party, kicking and screaming, if necessary, away from the DLC-led, Diet Republican model they tried in 2000 and 2004. In short, it was the very sort of "better Democrats" logic that drew me to DKos a few years later, and the same logic that forced the Democrats to dump people like Lieberman, adopt an aggressive 50 state strategy, nominate and elect the nation's first African American president, and introduce real (if imperfect) health care reform.

      That, if I read his comment right, is what jvance is talking about. That's the winning strategy. If you want to win over Stein voters, appeal to them as you would any undecided voter. Convince them that you have something to offer them. Even if they don't necessarily back you 100%, they will hopefully understand that you're willing to listen to their concerns.

      Saying that isn't third party advocacy, IMO. I would never tell anyone they should vote against Barack Obama, and I certainly wouldn't do so on Kos's own site. It's simply a question of effective political strategy. Even if you do blame Nader for 2000, consider what message that sent to people who were sympathetic to his campaign that year. You don't win votes by telling people they're stupid.

      •  Also read "Puritans and Poltroons" (0+ / 0-)

        on the front page, which makes points complementary to your own.

        Economic Left/Right: -7.38
        Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.00
        Two steps to the right of Trotsky.

        by jvance on Sun Oct 28, 2012 at 03:55:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  eloquent answer. i gave jvance a "my bad" & (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        seancdaug, jvance

        agree with both him & you that i was incorrect in that particular point of my comment.

        i also agree with your ending line.  when the rox/sux wars were going on here several months ago i was a sux but since this is kos' site (& i DEFINITELY don't want a lyin'asssackofshit like romney to win) i'm backing the big O, but i still tell the roxers they need to dial back the progressive bashing for the same reason you say: you don't win votes by trashing people.

    •  Look lets be clear (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alain2112, Notreadytobenice

      Gore lost.  You may not be happy about how it went down, but he still lost.  And a big part of why he lost is people voting 3rd party.  Had 10% of Nader voters in Florida voted for Gore, he would have won.  

      A desperate disease requires a dangerous remedy.

      by Guy Fawkes on Sun Oct 28, 2012 at 03:58:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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