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View Diary: Why Obama's New Teacher Incentive Pay Will Take Education Backward (254 comments)

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  •  So what you are saying is that the system that (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    caul, maf1029

    the teachers were striking against was so determined to make sure the kids would benefit from their policies that they could not be bothered to include those aspects that you think would benefit kids...

    At least, I assume you think computers and air conditioning would benefit kids. I don't actually think unicorns were mentioned anywhere except in your fevered dreams.

    I suspect that the teachers were more concerned with their future ability to not be driven arbitrarily out of their profession via mechanisms that have yet to be shown are at all accurate in what they purport to do, and when the administration refused to budge on installing air conditioning, accepted the inevitable.

    Or are you suggesting that air conditioning and computers wouldn't have been of benefit to students? In which case, why would it be a bad thing for the teachers to have not insisted on their inclusion?

    Or are you even trying to be consistent at all?

    •  The air conditioning and computers... (0+ / 0-)

      ...would have been of immense benefit to students.

      If teachers were selfless and cared for nothing but Learning, they would have forced Rahm to install computers.

      But they were not selfless. They were humans with families to feed. So they used their leverage to get money and job security instead. I don't blame them for this.

      •  Uh-huh. Yet the system you are advocating for, for (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        caul, maf1029

        the benefit of the children, obviously doesn't give a damn about something that "would have been of immense benefit to students", or they would have made certain it was part of the agreement. Or even never let it be a problem in the first place.

        Good to have that cleared up, then.

        Pity it doesn't help your position.

      •  Pls read my post on the results of Chicago teacher (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elfling, ManhattanMan
        •  Very nice. I was unable to find specifics on (0+ / 0-)

          the actual contract; this helps fill in the gaps.

          And, of course, clearly demonstrates that MM is talking out of his ass again.

          Just for the sake of completeness, can you point me to a source?

          •  I don't see anything there... (0+ / 0-)

            ...that is not related to job security or money (except the textbooks).

            Even the $250 for supplies is the same as cash in their pockets because most teachers spend more than that (out out of their paychecks) for supplies.

            •  Hard to read with your eyes shut. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              elfling

              Maybe these quotes will help:

              Next, and to me this is huge, the union secured positions for 512 Art, Language, Music, and Physical Education teachers. The  leaders and kids of leaders in our country get a broad based, critical thinking curriculum. For example, the Chicago Lab High School has no less than seven Art Teachers. This is where Rahm sends his children. The last similar size CPS high school that Rahm  shuttered had zero Art Teachers. Modern reformers are not fighting for schools like their children go to, but the union is.
              Each elementary school will now have a school counselor. In fact, the board has committed to hiring more social workers and nurses as well as counselors.
              They also added parents to the class size monitoring team. Before,there was no enforcement of class sizes. The union wanted parents on the board so they would have access to class size data. The mayor wanted parents in the dark because he does not believe class size matters, except at the Lab School where he sends his children.
              Research shows that identifying with a teacher can boost a student's achievement. It's also common sense. They aren't emotionless widgets to be screwed into place. With that in mind, the union fought for policies that will increase racial diversity.
              First, the union defeated the Mayor's merit pay scheme. Merit pay is the antithesis of what works in countries with top education programs. Educators know that the way to close the achievement gap is with all teachers working in constructive collaboration for all kids. Modern reform would pit teacher against teacher in destructive competition. The most comprehensive study on merit pay illustrates what a colossal waste of resources it is. It has no effect.
              •  In addition it's worth noting that Rahm (0+ / 0-)

                had passed a provision that made it illegal for the Chicago teachers to strike over anything other than pay and benefits. This substantially affected their ability to bargain on the other issues they raised.

                Why would he even think to do that if the teachers didn't care about other issues?

                Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

                by elfling on Sat Sep 29, 2012 at 10:26:04 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Because job security... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...is not a pay issue.

                  Anything that reduces accountability (such as gutting merit pay) increases job security. Mandating small class sizes, or requiring more hires also increases job security.

                  Giving parents class size data is another way to get parents to demand more hires. THIS IS A GOOD THING, but let's not pretend it was done solely"for the children".

                  I notice that parents don't get access to data such as their teachers' VAM scores. Whenever these are made public, teachers are suddenly against transparency and they howl like banshees...

                  •  No comment on all the other items? (0+ / 0-)

                    Of course not. Difficult to spin, even when spin is all you are looking for.

                    Small class sizes improves education. How, exactly, do you want to argue against that?

                    Merit pay does not work. You have yet to acknowledge that the diary itself contains a major study on merit pay in the US, which shows it does not work. Spinning it as an attempt to reduce accountability is just stupid.

                    VAM scores are crap. Again, I notice you didn't respond to my other comment linking to numerous studies on the subject.

                    What else have you got, except for lame spin?

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