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View Diary: Alice Walker: Palestinian Oppression Is "More Brutal" Than the Jim Crow South (45 comments)

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  •  There are certainly human rights issues (4+ / 0-)
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    FogCityJohn, poco, imokyrok, leonard145b

    in Turkey in regards to the Kurds, but they, like France, as pushing an assimilationist agenda, not a separatist.  That is the fundamental difference between what nearly every other democratic, albeit at various levels of "real" democracy, and what Israel does.  They have absolutely no intention of assimilating Arabs into Israel, only separating them.  I'm certainly not saying that assimilation is a god thing, it's brutal and harsh and it wounds people deeply, but one of the reasons people have latched onto apartheid is that there aren't really any other democracies that we support who are so egregious and official about it.

    Tie that to the fact that more and more Palestinian land is being  annexed, although not officially, and what you have is a situation similar to South Africa or the American devastation of indigenous peoples.  In some ways it's really worse than Jim Crow.  

    Again, the major difference between this situation and others around the world is that this is a purported democracy actively annexing land and denying the inhabitants of that land a voice in what happens because of their ethnicity.

    The revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

    by AoT on Sat Sep 29, 2012 at 04:08:55 PM PDT

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    •  So (0+ / 0-)

      So the Israelis are trying to separate themselves from a group of people whereas the Turks are trying to destroy the identity a group - and you think that's better? And no, that's nothing like France trying to assimilate people who have immigrated to their country. The Kurds did not immigrate to Turkey - their homeland is being illegally occupied. And the Armenians were forcibly expelled (those who were not murdered) and they are not allowed to visit Mr. Ararat.
      One of the good things to come out of the mess in Syria is the breakaway of Western Kurdistan. Two sections of Kurdistan are now self-ruled - two more to go. But the Kurds won't get a moment's notice from those who would go ballistic if the Israelis did to the Palestinians what is still being done to the Kurds in Turkey.

      Language professors HATE me!

      by Zornorph on Sat Sep 29, 2012 at 04:21:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I didn't say it was better (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        poco, imokyrok, leonard145b

        I definitely didn't say it was better.  What I did say is that it isn't apartheid.  The problem is that assimilation has a lot more support in the US because it's the assumed method of dealing with other cultures for the most part.  It's also important to point out that there definitely are people who are against Israel because they are antisemitic, but calling Israel an apartheid state is a matter of fact.  I'm not going to accuse you of racism against Arabs because there are anti-Arab racists who share some of your opinions on Israel.  I also won't accuse you of being a Christianist who wants a final battle to happen so that Jesus will finally return.  

        But by painting everyone who disagrees with Israel's actions and uses an appropriate term to describe as an anti-Semite, or just prejudiced, you're doing exactly that.  Condemning people based on the fact that bigots have used the some of the same ideas.  And that's what this is really about all too often, condemning the other side as being bigoted because there isn't a god argument against what they're saying.  That's why I replied to your original comment, because that isn't helpful.  

        If instead you showed how apartheid was functionally different than the current situation in Israel the it would have been a different matter.  But you didn't.  You simply claimed that because there were armed people on the Palestinian side, as if there weren't on the Israeli side, you made it sound like the situation was completely different.  But it isn't.  During the Jim Crow era the was a constant drum beat of how violent and savage "the blacks" were.  Just as there is now about Arabs.

        One of the good things to come out of the mess in Syria is the breakaway of Western Kurdistan. Two sections of Kurdistan are now self-ruled - two more to go. But the Kurds won't get a moment's notice from those who would go ballistic if the Israelis did to the Palestinians what is still being done to the Kurds in Turkey.
        I agree that it's a good thing, for sure.  I also think there aren't enough people discussing this.  Also, the vast majority of people are condemning Syria for what they are doing, even people who give a pass to Israel for similar things, like firing on unarmed people.

        But really, in the I/P situation, the problem has been largely with the leaders.  But, to bring it up again, BDS is an attempt at non-violent resistance and people are blasting even non-violent attempts at resistance as being antisemitic.  Can't win for losing.

        The revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

        by AoT on Sat Sep 29, 2012 at 04:48:19 PM PDT

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      •  What is being done to the Kurds, (5+ / 0-)

        not just by Turkey, is horrific.  And that is a completely separate subject from what is being done to the Palestinians by Israel.

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