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View Diary: Fascism Rising: Greece (49 comments)

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  •  be careful what you wish for... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AoT

    .... if Greeks want fascism and vote for it, that may be OK for the Greeks who are ethnically Greek, but woe betide the other diverse nationalities who make up the Greek people.

    The Germans arguably voted for the Nazis in the 1930s, but they never expected in their wildest million years that they would get themselves into something from which they couldn't escape.  Something that went on to be the supreme essence of distilled evil in living memory.  

    "First one's free" is the sales pitch of every pusher of addictive drugs on every street corner in the world.  Once you're hooked, it's no longer free.  

    "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

    by G2geek on Sun Sep 30, 2012 at 12:51:20 AM PDT

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    •  I agree that fascism would be (0+ / 0-)

      a bad thing, absolutely. But who are we to tell another people what they should be doing in their own country? Plus, even if we wanted to intervene, we're just some American liberal bloggers. While we sometimes think we have extraordinary powers, we have none. The irony here is that as Americans, we enjoy the right to support the idea of fascism (or any other -ism); yet we're not supposed to talk about self-determination for the Greeks?

      •  a line that can't be crossed. (0+ / 0-)

        With all of the potential options to choose from, it's legitimate to ask, "why chose the very very worst?"  

        As for self-determination, there are lines that can't be crossed, one of which is Naziism (and another is biological weapons proliferation).  Any Nazi regime elected to power in any country would be an immediate signal to Nazis everywhere to come out of the woodwork and start jockeying for power.  

        That becomes a very slippery slope indeed.  We already know what's at the bottom, and the entire complex of memes surrounding it are as dangerous as cyanide gas.  

        The answer to the question, "is it acceptable for a democratic majority to elect a dictatorship," is a naive Yes because after all it's their vote.  But any degree of reflection brings forth a resounding No because in doing so they would deprive future generations of their own votes: the ultimate exercise in diachronic competition (look it up) this side of human extinction.

        In any case there is a very real question as to whether this new "choice" of new Nazis is really a "choice" after all.  Arguably it is the product of coercive economic forces, and like any contract signed under duress, a-priori invalid.  

        "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Sun Sep 30, 2012 at 04:42:41 AM PDT

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        •  The nazis were national socialists. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Azazello

          Nazism and Fascism are boh forms of totalitarian dictatorships, but are not the same thing. The nazis' ally, Mussolini's Italy, we're true Fascists.

          •  A distinction without a difference ... (0+ / 0-)

            Mussolini used the term fascist  because it resonated in Italy. It refers to fasces, an ancient Roman symbol of unity. One of these hangs in our own house of reps, by the way. Hitler's choice of the term National Socialism for his nationalistic, identity-based movement was somewhat arbitrary and had little to do with any actual principles. 20th century fascist movements had different particulars in each country, but all were similar enough to fall under the same heading and none had coherent, detailed political programs.

            The GOP ... Government of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%

            by Azazello on Sun Sep 30, 2012 at 08:41:44 AM PDT

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            •  I think people use the term Fascist (0+ / 0-)

              way too commonly these days. It is used here to refer to any form of government control, or any exercise of power (how many college students today have seen their college administrations protested as "fascist"?). That said, as horrible as fascism is in its actual manifestations, if a country were to overwhelmingly decide to go that direction, there is little we can say about it.

              •  I don't make that mistake. (0+ / 0-)

                I know the technical stuff about these ideologies, and I never appreciated the 1960s-70s epithet "fascist pigs!" either.  

                When I say "fascist", I mean technically fascist.  Same for "Nazi."

                If a country votes for fascists and the fascists come in and rule, and then stand for re-election and get re-elected fair & square, that's one thing, just so long as they don't go on pogroms to attack people based on identity issues (e.g. race, ethnicity, etc.).  

                But fascism as such is not where I draw the line. Naziism is where I draw the line.  

                "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

                by G2geek on Mon Oct 01, 2012 at 06:40:22 AM PDT

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          •  this Greek fascist party IS Nazi. (0+ / 0-)

            They have WW2 Nazi regalia all over their office including a bust of Goering.  

            They are as Nazi as it gets without physically attacking Jews on the streets, though there are reports of their brownshirts attacking other minorities.

            "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

            by G2geek on Mon Oct 01, 2012 at 06:35:06 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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