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View Diary: Who is a Greater Threat to the United States? The "Obama Phone" Lady or Angry White Men with Guns? (161 comments)

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  •  i am talking white people and whiteness in the (6+ / 0-)

    aggregate and social constructions, locations of power, and identity. outliers matter; individual stories matter. but, if i am framing a narrative about social power and institutions then i am going big N. if you are not part of that narrative, and/or are actively working against white supremacy, the normativity of whiteness then you are not included.

    if you would like to write something about how outliers are generalizable then by all means knock yourself out.

    you wrote:

    "when you start identifying everything white as evil as an antidote to the Klan mentality of projecting meaning onto blackness, you become identical to that mentality, in negative."

    I don't know what this means. Try harder please. We have much evidence, a few texts and research provided in the links, about the normativity of whiteness and how it is not uniform. Try Dyer's book White when you get a chance.

    "The point I would like remembered, is that I didn't ask to be born white. I do not have any "original sin" based on my whiteness. I'm not responsible for the racism of my grandfather."

    common white deflection and pity party deflection. you do have unearned skin privilege in this society. don't feel guilt, seek action, responsibility, and ownership. i could care less about your grandfather.

    "It's my belief and my experience that there are white people who are not "privileged" in terms of economic success, relative to other races, except in the minds of black or left-leaning academics. "

    You lose all credibility there. Again, common white reverse racism self-pity victimology mess. Do you have any empirical data, research, or other work that would suggest that white people in America are not privileged in terms of life chances? If so, offer it up.

    You have lots of work to do if you want to become a valued ally in the search for social justice on these issues. I wish you luck.

    •  I have a long history of working for social (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nookular, mattc129, Dr Swig Mcjigger

      justice and community bridging race. Decades. None of it academic.
      I agree with the academic points of your diary, for the most part.
       The rest of your comment was expected.

      You can't make this stuff up.

      by David54 on Mon Oct 01, 2012 at 08:42:24 PM PDT

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      •  then you can do better (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        luckydog, blueness, caul, KenBee

        you can always up your game. if the rest of the comment was "expected" why not offer up a response or engagement?

        no one is perfect, there are lots of folks working for "social justice" who also buy into certain framings of colorblind racism. life is complicated.

        •  well done Chauncey (0+ / 0-)

          this usually the point where things get racially worse and harsh things are said and or heard.
            David54 would not be the first person to say this what he said, nor the last.

          Very good...especially this bit:

          don't feel guilt, seek action, responsibility, and ownership.
          that's good dam advice, solid, no finger pointing.

          Sig worthy really altho for now I'm sticking with the Union.


          This machine kills Fascists.

          by KenBee on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 09:51:43 PM PDT

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    •  First thanks for your diary. I had no idea about (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      the phone lady.

      You have lots of work to do if you want to become a valued ally in the search for social justice on these issues. I wish you luck.
      Becoming a valued ally is a mirage.  White will always be white and have to prove they aren't messed up every time starting from zero every time.   (substitute any skin for white)  

      Race is a topic of endless discussion here where I live.  White is the minority.  The race choice section on forms takes almost a whole page.  It is a strange experience for someone like me who saw her first person of color when I was in Junior High School.  Now I am learning what it feels like to be in the minority.  

      You have to remember that everyone has their story.  Being in the majority is not something you would ever be aware of unless it was absent.  Someone not in the majority would have a totally different view  of the benefits than someone in the majority.  I don't think being in the majority is all it's cracked up to be, but then again sometimes being in the minority sucks.

      Hey Ryan, where you goin' with that trans-vaginal probe in your hand

      by 88kathy on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 04:34:50 AM PDT

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    •  Joe Bageant (14+ / 0-)

      has written extensively--and brilliantly--about the white underclass.  A sample:

      A member of this peasantry, I quit school at age sixteen in the eleventh grade to join the U.S. Navy. I hated school, hated the social class differences in a small town that make life so miserable during adolescence, when one’s community and social status is being nailed down permanently for anyone planning on staying here. As a former young white cracklet I can say with all confidence that when you live with a rusty coal stove in the middle of the living room for heat, your old man smells of gasoline and motor oil no matter how much he bathes and your mom suffers from strange, unpredictable behavior due to untreated depression, you do not much feel like inviting the doctor’s daughter home. Or anyone’s daughter for that matter. Doctor’s son = College, career, golf, nice car and a bimbo. Redneck laborer’s son = Well, if you stay out of trouble, there’s always room for one more broad shouldered chinless pinhead stamping out bright yellow plastic mop buckets on the injection molds at Rubbermaid.
      And then Rubbermaid closed the factory . . . there are reasons for of much the rage we are seeing.  That isn't to justify it, but to say that the problems we face because of this system of hierarchy and privilege we are living in are complex, and they affect everyone in some manner.  Ultimately, it doesn't serve us to ONLY create divisions of the more or less privileged solely based on color--because then, yet again, whole groups of suffering people become invisible to us.  Again, Bageant:
      Why not have affirmative action for Appalachian kids from the Ohio Basin or from the Deep South or anyplace else where tens of millions of kids grow up in houses containing not a single book, except possibly the Bible. Why don’t we do these things? Part of the reason is that this stubborn proud people does not whine beg or threaten its way to access to education, employment or anything else. And part of it is because we unquestioningly accept a system that calls greed and self-interest drive, thus letting the prosperous professional and business classes pretend there is no disparity around them for which they might just be partially responsible, even as they pay the maid and the gardener who lack health insurance a pittance -- or see that their mechanic’s bill reads, “repare of fuul injection, $105.”

      Does recognizing this minimize or negate the suffering of people of color (or any other disparaged group?)  No.  Does white skin bring with it certain inherent privileges?  Yes.  But are there whole classes of people for whom that "privilege" doesn't add up to much at all?  Yes.  If we remain stuck in the framing that white = privilege, we will continue to lose whole swaths of people it would be far better reach, and stand always uncomprehending before their rage and anger.    

      "If a man loses his reverence for any part of life, he will lose his reverence for all of life." — Albert Schweitzer

      by mozartssister on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 06:02:18 AM PDT

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