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View Diary: Who is a Greater Threat to the United States? The "Obama Phone" Lady or Angry White Men with Guns? (161 comments)

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  •  Citation please (0+ / 0-)

    Please, tell us where you get this information from.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 09:20:28 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Where's your citation? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happy camper, KenBee, Tom Seaview

      He needs a citation to refute your assertions that have none?

      more guns = more deaths
      On the south and west sides of Chicago that may be true.  But young men of color have no problem getting handguns, illegally.  There is no shortage, and there is no shortage of gun crime, including killings.

      But is it true outside of inner cities?  No.  Gun ownership has been up everywhere with decreases in gun crimes.  (no citation! go look it up!)

      Ok.. I'm feeling generous.. here's the FBI report -

      Oh.. and looky here.. gun sales were up!

      Gun Sales Still Increasing, Crime Rates Still Decreasing

      At the same time that violent crime continues to decrease (and the decreases are even more significant when you consider that the population as a whole has increased), gun sales have continued their steady growth.  As this table clearly shows, total pre-sale ‘NICS’ checks were 15% up in 2011 compared to 2010, and continue to be up so far in 2012 as well.

      A 15% increase in gun sales, and a reduction in violent crime.  And not just in 2011.  But in the last almost 20 years, consistently, almost every year in a row.  Violent crime rates are now down to the lowest point since 1970 – 41 years back.

      •  your citations are repetitions of your argument... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueness, caul

        ...those links don't go to any study that provides evidence of causality or correlation.

        As such, your links don't really add much to the conversation.


      •  Crime rate IS decreasing, yet gun deaths INCREASE (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueness, caul, YucatanMan

        First off, let me apologize for not provide a reference for the assertion that increasing gun sales is associated with increasing fatal gun injuries.  You can read [Private Guns, Public Health, David Hemenway PhD, MPH, U. Michigan Free Press, 2006]  Dr. Hemenway is at the Harvard School of Public Health.  His book includes a chapter on gun injury statistics and a chapter on the myth of self-defensive gun use.

        Secondly, while CRIME statistics have decreased in recent years, according to the FBI, GUNSHOT INJURIES and GUNSHOT DEATHS have been increasing every years since 1999.  (check the CDC web-site for details).

        So even though there is less overall crime, and even less overall violent crime, there are more gunshot injuries and more fatal gunshot injuries.

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 11:02:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Murder up but crime down. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Yeah yeah yeah. This is prima facia evidence of Police scrubbing and massaging figures.  Like school test score scandals.

          A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

          by Salo on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 12:27:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  and what is not often discussed about (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blueness, caul, YucatanMan

          the rate of gun death increases is that is despite huge advances in trauma medicine from vietnam--and now the gulf wars--forward. if adjusted for those innovations then the shooting and violent death rate would be much higher.

          •  A quick thank you (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            caul, YucatanMan

            A quick thank you for a very well-written and thought-provoking article.

            I look forward to reading your future diaries.

            "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

            by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 01:29:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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