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  •  The legislature passed single payer in California (8+ / 0-)

    several times when there was a Republican governor to veto it.

    Now that there is a Democratic governor, it can't get voted out of committee.

    Cynical?  Who me?

    •  Yeah, it's discouraging, I know. (5+ / 0-)

      But sometimes you just have to jump over all the absurdities and realize that in the end, the ONLY solution is single payer. Which is why so many countries in this world have already done so, and no one in those countries is looking back.  

      LOL, when's the last time you heard of a country on single payer vote itself back to for profit insurance?

      Obamacare will plug the hole for awhile, long enough to give this country time to come to terms with the fact that they are WAY BEHIND in the obvious solution, and that they simply have no choice---unless they want this "exceptional" country to be seen kicking its sick to the streets on a major scale. Because that's what's coming, eventually, ACA or not.

      There's just no way private insurance can survive without charging more and more.  Their overhead and profit motive makes it impossible for this not to happen.  And once business stops providing it to their employees, because they can't afford it, everything changes.

      In large part, health care is a huge issue these days because businesses have had to raise the premium their employees pay to the point where most of America has begun to feel the pain.

      As a self employed person, I can assure you how much worse the pain can be.  Americans simply have no idea how much their insurance could cost.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 09:01:05 PM PDT

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      •  What we need is a National Health Service (4+ / 0-)

        Countries which have nationalized their health care are better off than we are. When the profit motive of corporate health providers is taken out of the equation, better results ensue.

        Single payer still enables provider incentives to gouge the system, and that's why it is inferior to a National Health Service.

        Eradicate magical thinking

        by Zinman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 11:05:57 PM PDT

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        •  Please, say more. (0+ / 0-)

          I'm not conversant with the difference between a National Health Service and single payer.

          "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

          by StellaRay on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 11:43:30 PM PDT

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          •  NHS owns and employs. Single payer pays. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            EJP in Maine, Kimbeaux, StellaRay, RonK

            For example, the UK government (generally) owns and operates its own hospitals and health care facilities and hires medical staff as employees. Canada, on the other hand, has a single payer system (even though each province runs its own Medicare) which pays providers - hospitals, clinics, doctors, pharmacies - for health care services. Although Medicare may have doctors on staff, most family doctors and specialists are self-employed and bill the single payer (according to government determined fee schedules).

            •  Interesting. Thanks. (0+ / 0-)

              "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

              by StellaRay on Sun Oct 07, 2012 at 07:18:31 AM PDT

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              •  In the us context (0+ / 0-)

                VA=NHS
                Medicare=Single payer system

                •  Excellent description of NHS vs Single Payer (0+ / 0-)

                  The VA system is not set up as a system whose primary goal is to make money for the owners of the system, The VA is set up as a system to provide necessary health care for veterans, not profits for investors.

                  Single payer is a system set up to ensure that private, for profit, medical providers get paid for serving all the eligible patients it sees. Regulations seek to limit gouging in the system, such as unnecessary procedures, but the profit motive of medical providers is continually at odds with what would be in the best interest of patients while still protecting the taxpayers who underwrite the system.

                  Single Payer is better than what we have, but NHS is better than Single Payer, at least for patients and the taxpayers, and that just happens to be the vast majority of us.

                  Eradicate magical thinking

                  by Zinman on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 10:33:57 PM PDT

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    •  Well, you'll have to take that up with California (0+ / 0-)

      Barack Obama for President '12

      by v2aggie2 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 09:39:33 PM PDT

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