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View Diary: Obama's post-debate polling collapse that isn't (303 comments)

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  •  Frankly, the biggest takeaway I got from Wednesday (18+ / 0-)

    was that I'm glad the talking heads at MSNBC aren't running Team Obama.  That was kind of embarrassing.  

    I mean I knew Romney was a lying asshole.  And I knew the president does not like to engage in hand to hand combat - especially while representing the Office of the President.  Whether or not it was strategy by the team, or a strategic response to Romney's display of asshattery in real time, I'm not sure, but it sure seems that the outcome is anything but negative for our side.

    Certainly from our standpoint, this gives us a sense of momentum -- when the United States has accolades tossed its way, rather than shoes. - PJ Crowley

    by nsfbr on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 12:28:13 PM PDT

    •  Not engaging was a smart move. (6+ / 0-)

      But I bet it was very difficult to pull those punches.

      MSNBC is having a coronary right now.

      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
      —Spike Milligan

      by polecat on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 12:31:59 PM PDT

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      •  Yep, tweety's a gonner but Big Bird's flying high. (6+ / 0-)

        "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

        by Gorette on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 12:46:04 PM PDT

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        •  If you mean Chris Mathews (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Orlaine

          he's a huge Obama supporter and has been advocating for him since day one.
          he was over the top because he had such big expectations.
          i was embarrassed for his tears, but they were real. and legit.
            ed schultz was just nasty about it.

          We consume the carcasses of creatures of like appetites, passions and organs with our own, and fill the slaughterhouses daily with screams of pain and fear. Robert Louis Stevenson

          by Christin on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 01:20:36 PM PDT

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      •  MSNBC is NOT having a coronary. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Julia Grey, Christin, polecat

        They're not retracting their initial debate performance criticism - they're now analyzing what Obama's lackluster performance does and doesn't mean in the overall scheme of things.

        I've posted this elsewhere, and I'll continue to post it until this particular DKos 11 dimensional bubble gets popped:

        Obviously, moving forward, we're going to take a hard look at this, and we're going to have to make some judgments as to where to draw the line in these debates and how to use our time," said David Axelrod, the Obama campaign's senior adviser. "I'm sure that we will make adjustments.
        The Obama campaign is reassessing its debate strategy precisely BECAUSE of the criticisms by assorted "hand wringers," "bed wetters" and "armchair quarterbacks" here, elsewhere AND at MSNBC. You know, criticisms from Obama's allies, who want him to succeed.

        The president missed a golden opportunity to call out some of Romney's egregious lies and flip flops real time, while 60+ million voters were tuned in and paying attention. The campaign obviously recognizes that now.

        It doesn't mean that Obama's less than  optimal performance at the first debate has jeopardized his reelection. It doesn't mean that the campaign won't capitalize in highlighting Romney's lies in their post-debate ads and whistle stops. (They're doing that, and doing it well.)

        What it DOES mean is that the campaign is going to have to work harder than may have been otherwise necessary in order to erase whatever good impression Romney may have left with voters who weren't paying close attention before the first debate.

        Romney threw out a lot of "facts" and "figures" that went unchallenged at the time that they SHOULD have been. Why is it so damned difficult for so many kossacks to recognize what the campaign itself recognizes.

        And, to the dozens of kossacks who are posting that they're now DONE with MSNBC? [The rest of my comment edited out to preserve community comity.]

        Don't ask if I'm better off now than four years ago. Ask if I'm better off than I would have been under four years of McCain.

        by WisePiper on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 01:46:49 PM PDT

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        •  lots of truth in your post. (5+ / 0-)

          i'm not done with MSNBC.
          but schultz and mathews and maddow were embarrassing wednesday night.
          as was andrew sullivan.
          the hysteria was just painful.

          yes  discuss and pick apart that lackluster performance by POTUS.
          but don't act  like you poo'd your pants.

          what i'm hating with all my heart.
          is everyone admitting MR lied through his teeth and was swarmy. and then going "he won".
          it's whats wrong with society period.
          knowing that  he lied, knowing that he was borderline socio in those lies, and still saying he won.
          it send the wrong message. and the younger people..
          no everyone. embraces it as the new reality.
          in order to win, you lie. cheat and steal.
          we teach that it's wrong.
          but in reality, we embrace it and reward it.
          and that's what makes me sick.

          We consume the carcasses of creatures of like appetites, passions and organs with our own, and fill the slaughterhouses daily with screams of pain and fear. Robert Louis Stevenson

          by Christin on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 01:57:54 PM PDT

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          •  Here's the thing: (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Christin

            People watching MSNBC (at least at night) and people reading progressive blogs are NOT the people who are going to be negatively influenced by what's being said at MSNBC or read on progressive blogs.

            Those of us declaring MR won the debate are doing so in the context of the debate's possible influence on low information, wavering voters who don't start really paying attention until the debates.

            Twelve million new jobs. That sounds good, Marge. That's what this country needs now.
            I'd like to think that these people can be turned around by the post-debate ads that call out the lies in Romney's debate assertions, but it would have been better to do so in front of that captive audience of tens of millions of voters. As I said above, the campaign appears to recognize that now, and hopefully will adjust their debate strategy going forward.

            Don't ask if I'm better off now than four years ago. Ask if I'm better off than I would have been under four years of McCain.

            by WisePiper on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:23:45 PM PDT

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            •  i know. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              WisePiper

              i gasped when i saw the  ratings.
              sigh. :-(
              oh well.

              he was due for a good news cycle.
              just wish it was not handed to him on a platter.

              We consume the carcasses of creatures of like appetites, passions and organs with our own, and fill the slaughterhouses daily with screams of pain and fear. Robert Louis Stevenson

              by Christin on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:39:23 PM PDT

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        •  Oh please, so the O campaign is now responding to (0+ / 0-)

          the freakout here? Riiiight. This debate 'debacle' is too hilarious. Even the Ipsos poll kos updated shows a firming of ROMNEY'S base not a loss of Obama's. So whether Obama came out 'swinging' to appease you is irrelevant except in terms of news cycle - which is what all this hair pulling is about, the fact that for the FIRST TIME this campaign Obama lost control of the narrative. The wingnuts would have firmed up for Romney's performance regardless of what Obama did, why is this so difficult to grasp? He knows that and he made the right call. It's amazing that so many here have completed blocked out the past 6 months of pure winning and are judging the outcome of the election on this debate. It is total hysteria.

          If I knew it was going to be that kind of party, I'd have stuck my ---- in the mashed potatoes! - Paul's Boutique

          by DoctorWho on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:13:04 PM PDT

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          •  You might actually want to respond to the (0+ / 0-)

            specific assertions I made in my comment.

            On the other hand, you clearly don't want to.

            You win. Obama played the first debate brilliantly. I stand humbled and schooled.

            Don't ask if I'm better off now than four years ago. Ask if I'm better off than I would have been under four years of McCain.

            by WisePiper on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 06:01:47 PM PDT

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    •  Yep. The MSNBC talkers were like the Ghostbusters (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, Dillonfence, Gorette, elmo, Matt Z, jofr

      warning the NYC mayor:

      "A young man who wishes to remain a sound Atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. There are traps everywhere ". C. S. Lewis

      by TofG on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 12:35:13 PM PDT

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    •  agree on all, nsfbr, but esp: (6+ / 0-)
      I'm glad the talking heads at MSNBC aren't running Team Obama.  That was kind of embarrassing.
      They have been punditing too long; they actually believe they see and control the reality of what is going on.  When in fact, their perspective is really quite narrow.

      It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. ~~Joseph Stalin

      by SeaTurtle on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 12:39:13 PM PDT

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      •  it's interesting that MSNBC has (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SeaTurtle

        generally moved from "ticker" to Twitter. It has embraced new media?!!! sort of...

        Reading general Twitter comments pertaining to the debate after the event was enlightening, especially after having my soul sucked out here and by Sully... sure there were a lot of "ach lost cause" moments but a hell of lot more FUCK HE LIED and that Romney looked bad tweets.

        Btw the News Ticker at Fox is manually cranked by worker monkeys under threat of an Ann Coulter whipping.

        "Never trust a man who, when left alone with a tea cosy, doesn't try it on!!"

        by EcosseNJ on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 01:22:41 PM PDT

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    •  Did I wish he had pushed back a little harder (4+ / 0-)

      during the debate, absolutely. In the couple of days since then it seems like he took the correct approach. The polling in the next week will tell us for sure about that.

       The MSNBC crew after the debate were beyond embarrassing. The 5 minutes I spent watching them after the debate will taint my opinion of them for some time to come.

      Fuck me! He made it. Will Scarlet

      by dagolfnut on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 01:20:00 PM PDT

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      •  I have to agree. I have not been able to watch (3+ / 0-)

        The Ed Show since.

        My take on the debate was that it was NOT FOR THE BASE.  The people who are howling the loudest are the base.  They wanted a litany of zingers.  They wanted to see Mitt cowering in the fetal position.

        But after watching this President for the past 4 years, I never imagined he would take such a strategy.  He was having a civil conversation with independents/undecideds/low information voters.  I think his approach was/will be ultimately the right one.  I know others disagree.  

        •  Not for the base. (0+ / 0-)

          Yep, that's Obama all over!

          How many divisions does OWS have?

          by Diebold Hacker on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 02:32:52 PM PDT

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        •  Bingo!!! Why is this so frickin' hard to grasp (0+ / 0-)

          It's just like when after he got elected everybody got a sad and felt disappointed. Oh the disappointment, he's not a progressive, he's not liberal enough, not listening to us yadda yadda. Dkos did not elect him and he never, ever ran a progressive campaign. Why people think he was going to red meat the debate is beyond me. Dems are taking their anger and fear and projecting it onto him when they should know by now Obama is the turtle, the opponent the hare.

          If I knew it was going to be that kind of party, I'd have stuck my ---- in the mashed potatoes! - Paul's Boutique

          by DoctorWho on Fri Oct 05, 2012 at 04:18:37 PM PDT

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