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View Diary: Venezuela Live Diary 2: The Results (32 comments)

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  •  President Carter (12+ / 0-)

    Jimmy Carter, somebody we all respect, had this to say about the electoral process in Venezuela.“As a matter of fact, of the 92 elections that we’ve monitored, I would say the election process in Venezuela is the best in the world."

    As a student of history of Latin America, this is a huge day for the global south. We have a neoliberal who wants to turn the county backwards from cutting poverty and hand the country back in the hands of the powerful. Chavez is far from perfect, but he fights with the poor on his mind. He is not a dictator as they have fair elections and has been popular with the people of Venezuela.

    He has even survived a U.S CIA backed coup attempt. Liberals and socialists around the world who stand on the side of the lower class should stand against the neoliberal neocons in Venezuela and around the world.

    •  Chavez's policies has hurt as much as help (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jay C, Judge Moonbox, FG

      The poor. Especially over his second term. Unemployment remains high as do food shortages and Violence has hit a record for a South American country.

      •  Chavez (6+ / 0-)

        Chavez has cut extreme poverty in half and the unemploymemt rate in half to around where ours is. I'm not pretending he is perfect by any means or that I support everything he does, but I believe he gets a bad shake from western media and that his policies genuinly help the poor.

        After what neocolonialism, the World Bank, and the IMF had done to Latin America, I think the leftist leaders are good for the continent, the poor, and the economy.

        I don't know how you feel about Oliver Stone, but I found his movie "South of the Boarder" to be interesting. It doesn't have to be completely subjective, but it does give the other side.

        Thanks for the diary and interesting dialogue. I hope to finish my postgrad soon.

        •  The Average Venezuelan (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FG

          Still doesn't live nearly half as well as the average american. Under chavez there have been major food shortages especially with meat and diary products. The majority of people rarely have access to them to anymore including the middle class because of his food policies.

          Chavez is a Socialist. He put pretty tight reins on any kind of private business and the free media in his country. Democrats are Progressivists. There's a very big difference. We still believe in the idea of capitalism but recognize that capitalism must be controlled to not destroy itself. We do not want to end Capitalism as Chavez has.

          I would prefer to live under Obama than Chavez.

          •  Democrats (6+ / 0-)

            Democrats come from all different viewpoints. We don't all have to be corporatist or simply mainstream progressives. I happen to lean towards socialist, but that doesn't mean I don't believe in private business. It just means that basic things like health and programs to prevent poverty should be government owned for all, and I agree with oil nationalization. The poster below me answered your concerns very well. I'm going to bed, peace

          •  Chavez has not ended Capitalism (5+ / 0-)

            Not even close. He may talk a good game against the idea of Capitalism, but he hasn't come anywhere near to ending it, and let's be real, hasn't even tried. He's had 14 years in power and the majority of business and the media is privately owned. The private sector controls about 2/3rds of the economy, which is about the same proportion as when he took office. He's nationalized a few more things than prior to him (the oil industry was already nationalized before him, for example), and has set up some alternative state and community systems alongside capitalism, but Venezuela is still very much a capitalist country.

            Also, Democrats and Progressives is not the same thing. I don't believe in the idea of capitalism. I think it's a lousy and unfair economic system, but it keeps the trains running I guess. So I see it as a part of current life that can hopefully be changed for the better over time, and maybe even one day ended. But defending the "idea of Capitalism" is not any kind of Progressive agenda, in my book.

      •  The stats show otherwise (6+ / 0-)

        - "extreme poverty has been reduced from 21 percent in 1999 to 7.3 percent in 2011."

        - "the number of poor households in Venezuela went from 49 to 21.4 percent, which represents a reduction of over 50 percent. "

        - "unemployment has dropped from 15.3 percent in 1999 to 8.8 percent in the first trimester of 2011"

        http://venezuela-us.org/...

        Hard to see exactly how one would claim that Chavez's policies have "hurt the poor" as much as helped them. It must be founded entirely on the basis of subjective opinions, as the facts don't support it.

        Must be because, while Chavez's policies have objectively improved their economic situation from the prior norm, it has turned them into moochers who are "dependent on government" and believe they are "entitled to food, health care, housing, you name it," and "refuse to take responsibility for their lives". They need a "centrist" who will realize this and teach them that having twice as many households in poverty was much better, because it offered the poor an opportunity to learn how to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps without government "handouts", and thus enjoy the benefits of building their moral character in a manner which "centrists" could approve.

        •  While providing basic food and housing to many (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Riff, FG

          The quality of living for others, especially the lower middle classes, have decreased greatly due to aforementioned food shortages, violence, and high unemployment rates.

          These are not particularly rich people they make at the max twice what the poor do.

          In American terms it's bringing up the income for people making less than $20k by $5k, while bringing down the income for people making between 40k-60k down by twice that amount or more.

          You can sit around all day and state Chavez's policies only affected the extremely affluent rich. But that's not a fact. They all chose to leave the country. The remaining people who vote against him are not extremely affluent rich. Their the middle class who have had their incomes and purchasing parity nearly destroyed over the past 14 years.

          Their remains a rich class in Venezuelan society. IT has shifted. Previously it was rich businessmen. Now it has become rich politicians. A significant and interesting change.

          •  I note you fail to cite anything in support (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Wreck Smurfy, SquirmyRooter, quill

            of what you say.

            "In American terms it's bringing up the income for people making less than $20k by $5k, while bringing down the income for people making between 40k-60k down by twice that amount or more."

            Where are you getting this from? And what are you calling the "lower middle class"? What income range is that for Venezuela, and what percentage of the population falls into that range, and where are you getting this "fact" that their incomes, as a class, have supposedly declined by 17-25%?

            Me thinks you are making this stuff up as you go along.

    •  thank you for adding to the conversation. (7+ / 0-)

      I respect Jimmy Carter and trust his judgement. I have watched Venezuela for years since the US backed coup attempt, in fact that was what really drew me into politics because when I heard our former ambassador saying we categorically were not involved I started snooping around and of course discovered otherwise.

      Poverty = politics.

      by Renee on Sun Oct 07, 2012 at 06:13:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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