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View Diary: Must read of the day: "The Republican Party is only a viable entity because of Southern racism." (330 comments)

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  •  Hence their fretting (39+ / 0-)

    about the problem of renewing the supply of "angry white guys."

    We could probably track Republican fortunes by tracking sales of Confederate flags.

    Romney: The guy that laid off your father. Ryan: The guy that thinks your father should starve because he couldn't keep a job.

    by Liberal Protestant on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 11:24:54 AM PDT

    •  Raised as a Deep-South, Southern Baptist (48+ / 0-)

      Southerner.   I was always indoctrinated in family, culture, public-school years to feel and believe that the South should won The Wahr.  You know, the Civil War.

      Gone With The Wind was my family's favorite movie.   I know my mother, the quintessential Southern Belle (they even put that in her obituary recently), always identified with Miss Scahlett.  

      Dixie was considered the real National Anthem.  My elementary-school text books showed pictures of "happy darkies working in the cotton fields with their overseer on horseback" over them.  Regularly.   And all the black folks in the pictures looked like caricatures of Vaudeville Black-Face.   Really.  The happy darkies", it read.

      So up until the Age of Reason (about age 13), I was a true Confederate.   Loyal to mah southren her'tage.   I don't recall being racist, even as a child, though.  

      Once I turned 13 or so, I started asking those questions:  WHY are colored people not allowed to come to our church?  WHY do the colored people have to ride in the back of the bus?  WHY do colored people have their own drinking fountains at the Montgomery Ward dept. store?  WHY do we care if colored kids come to school with us?

      Of course, I started getting severely rebuked for these questions.   And then, by age 15, when I outright rejected all racist attitudes, I was laughed at and derided by the family Klan as being a N-lover.  

      I endured this until age 18, and then I was just so outta there.   Left for California, and only go back when I have to.   (Now they add:   Crazy California Lib'rul Democrat to the epithets they throw at me.  No kiddin'.)

      Save yer Confederate money, boyz, the South shall RISE AGAIN!!  (I was taught this one from a very young age.  Ugh.)

      •  Then use that rebel money (9+ / 1-)

        To set up a fire insurance firm specializing in the Atlanta market.

        Yes Mitt, I do believe people are entitled to food.

        by Rustbelt Dem on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 01:34:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  LOL! Y'mean the Yankees are gonna invade and (5+ / 0-)

          burn it down again?   Sorry, it took me some hours to get the snark.   Sometimes I'm punchline-impaired. ;)~

        •  Nothing funny about war crimes. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          fuzzyguy

          Terror has no religion.
          لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الل

          by downsouth on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 06:50:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's true, but (7+ / 0-)

            The whole Southern-State-secession thing to protect wealthy landowners' agendas and their slave-owning was a war crime against the United States, too.   So it was pretty much a horrific wash, so to speak, on both sides.

            I think you coulda made your point without the H/R.  That's a bit heavy-handed, imo, and it's obviously so preposterous a prospect,  that it's very obvious snark.  We southerners need to lighten up a bit, it appears.  It's that lingering anger over Sherman's March, is it?  Peace.

          •  Nothing funny about treason or pining for it nt (4+ / 0-)

            Yes Mitt, I do believe people are entitled to food.

            by Rustbelt Dem on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 07:13:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It is my fervent hope... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fuzzyguy

              that forces of the United States government will never do to you and yours what they did to my relatives and their families.  The great majority of Southerners neither owned slaves nor supported the Confederacy.  That made no difference to General Sherman.  The poor farmers of Alabama, including my relatives, did not get the option to evacuate their homes, as he gave Atlanta.  They got no warning.  What they got was burned alive if at home, or slaughtered like animals if found outside.  All because, much like Obama's drone strike logic, they were "military-age males".

              The idea that a criminal act justifies a war crime is one held and made popular by Dick Cheney.  It looks odd on a progressive.  I guess rape, murder, torture, etc are ok, in your estimation, if its done to a Southerner.  Good to know.

              Terror has no religion.
              لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الل

              by downsouth on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 08:08:57 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  There are (5+ / 0-)

                members of my family in blue uniforms that died in the name of defending this republic against Southern traitors.  And when it comes to war crimes, you cannot surpass Andersonville nor Fort Pillow.

                Dixi.

                Yes Mitt, I do believe people are entitled to food.

                by Rustbelt Dem on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 08:15:39 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  And by the way (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sockpuppet, DuzT, milkbone

                I'm in Automotive country.  Y'all have been fucking us over with your anti-labor policies for 30 years.  I have limited sympathy for 1864 when 2008-2009 is fresh in my mind.

                As Abraham Lincoln once said: "Thank God for Michigan"

                Yes Mitt, I do believe people are entitled to food.

                by Rustbelt Dem on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 09:55:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I nearly HR'd you for this (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Rustbelt Dem

                All because, much like Obama's drone strike logic, they were "military-age males"

                Stop that shit now.  This diary has nothing to do with drone strikes and it's a cheap blow to throw that crap in here.  Next time I won't warn.

                "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

                by artmartin on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 11:08:30 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No. (0+ / 0-)
                  Stop that shit now.
                  I'll stop nothing so long as I am an American citizen with the rights granted to me by the First Amendment.  The analogy is accurate, whether you like it or not.

                  Terror has no religion.
                  لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الل

                  by downsouth on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 07:32:45 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Anybody can make (0+ / 0-)

                    a valid analogy out of anything.  Your point could easily have been made without disparaging the President so don't give me this bullshit.  Your goal was to troll and sideline the discussion.  You may have the right as a citizen but this board is a private one with it's own rules.  I also have the right to point that out.  Guess who'll survive here if we push this issue.

                    "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

                    by artmartin on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:30:39 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Don't know. (0+ / 0-)

                      But if you feel that mentioning a policy that the Administration has freely admitted to deserves banning, I urge you to contact the proper administrators.

                      As for my goal, it was to make a point to someone other than you.  Someone who openly celebrates the slaughter of my relatives while he calls himself "progressive".

                      Terror has no religion.
                      لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الل

                      by downsouth on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 03:28:11 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  We've all had relatives slaughtered (0+ / 0-)

                        The Civil War is over.  Hundreds of thousands of men lost their lives in that terrible conflict with atrocities committed by both sides.  War causes men of great character to have to make impossible choices and not all leaders have intimate details of the actions of their underlings.  Looking at some tiny piece of that dynamic will always create good and bad guys but human behavior, within the the confines of horrific circumstances, gets muddy and terrible as the survival instincts kick in.  What you see as innocent women and children end up being demonized to allow men to carry on unconscionable acts of murder and warfare.   It happens to ALL SIDES in war and armed conflict.  There is no moral justification to any of it and the only fix is to prevent the taking up of arms in the first place.  

                        Raging, as I see from you, is exactly what creates that move to armed conflict.  The irony is chilling.  We have huge historical examples of holding onto generational outrage as you show with General Sherman.  It doesn't end until you force it.  It becomes Hatfields and McCoys where innocent people far removed from the original conflict become embroiled into it.  

                        Nobody's celebrating the slaughter of your relatives and nobody today is to blame.  Get a grip.  Passion is necessary.  Hatred and anger make you stupid.

                        "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

                        by artmartin on Sat Oct 13, 2012 at 09:59:37 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

          •  Judgment (4+ / 0-)
            Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

            -Abraham Lincoln, 2nd Inaugural, 1865

      •  Really - Miss Scarlett? It has been a really long (6+ / 0-)

        since I read "Gone with the Wind", but very early on the book pointed out that Scarlett's mother would be appalled if she realized how thin was the veneer of propriety for her daughter.  Scarlett was brave and smart, but also amoral and gauche.

        ...Son, those Elephants always look out for themselves. If you happen to get a crumb or two from their policies, it's a complete coincidence. -Malharden's Dad

        by slowbutsure on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 01:42:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Civil War? or the "War of Northern... (5+ / 0-)

        Aggression"? as some, including the occasional elected republican, still insist on calling it.

        •  LOL! That's part of the new "framing" of history. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kurious, George3, happymisanthropy
          •  Perhaps you meant it as snark but it's very old (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sockpuppet, NM Ward Chair

            The War of Northern Aggression is a very old term that I believe dates back to the 19th century used of course by Confederates  who could not accept the outcome of the Civil War.

            I last heard the term spoken by an old biddy at a neighborhood association meeting -- the old biddy was our state delegate back in the 1970s and 1980s, very, very Republican.  These types also seem to be troubled by the ethnic diversity of our neighborhood -- go figure.

            •  In all my years bein' raised in the Deep South (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              akeitz, NM Ward Chair

              I never heard that "very old term".   Was too many high-falutin' words for the neighborhood and Klan I came from.  

              Even if it is "very old" denial by Confederate loyalists, it still reads like snark today.   Especially after "Shock 'N Awe", y'think? ;)

        •  Yeah, and WWII was the war of English Agression (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sockpuppet, NM Ward Chair

          as one heavily militarized society based on a racial caste system might say to another across 80 years of history

          •  The good thing about history (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sockpuppet

            is that sometimes people will learn from it.

            The stupidity of the victors in 1865 and in 1918 by completely rubbing the losers faces in shit created an inkling of understanding a few decades later in 1945 that utter humiliation of the losers only creates resentment.

            Unfortunately, folks like Willard apparently never took history.

            It's about time I changed my signature.

            by Khun David on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 09:45:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  You learned to question authority (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sockpuppet, NM Ward Chair

        as most thinking people do at certain point in life on so many issues.

        Do not adjust your mind, there is a flaw in reality.

        by Shrew in Shrewsbury on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 07:15:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I specifically credit my public education teachers (4+ / 0-)

          once I got to high school.   We were assigned Alan Paton's Cry The Beloved Country as required reading.   That cured me of any ingrained racial bias against the black folks I was raised with around me.  

          I don't recall ever having any of that.  I adored our daily housekeeper, Leila.   I couldn't understand, when Leila had to bring her kids with her to work, why they weren't allowed to eat lunch at the table with me.   And why I wasn't allowed to be age-appropriately courteous to black ladies.   I mean, like sayin', "Thank you, M'am", and holding doors open for them, and such.  

          Once the turmoil of the 60's hit, when I was a pre-teen, I just didn't understand any of what was happening.  The rage around me by my elders (family, neighbors, church fellowship, general society) was very confusing to me.  

          I just shut down and buried myself in very rewarding reading about life outside of the strange, culturally and diversity-deprived bubble I was raised in.   I could plainly see through the reading I did that there was a whole different kind of world out there than I had any previous clue about.  

          So yeah, I was always treated like a pariah in my own family and extended-family Klan.   Pretty much exactly the way Republican wing nuts see Democrats today:  intellectually snooty, better-than-them educated weirdos.

          Honestly, my own mother said recently on her death bed that she hoped "the Lord" would forgive her for the way she treated me.   I stood by sorta surprised but waited.  "You were so different from the rest of us," she said.   "Oh, so you noticed that, didja?" I replied with a laugh I couldn't stifle.  She didn't elaborate any further.   Alas.  (My Tea-Party devoted siblings were rolling with laughter out in the hallway.)

          The South has become like The Land That Time Forgot.  It might be reflecting modernism in some aspects, but the underlying hatred and rage is still there.   Having a Black President has been kerosene on the fire.  What can ever heal this ancient wound?

      •  How do they view (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sockpuppet

        "To Kill a Mockingbird" (either the novel or the movie)?

        It's about time I changed my signature.

        by Khun David on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 11:47:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I doubt anyone in my Klan has ever (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Khun David

          read the book or sat through the movie.   Really.  :(

          Here's the thing:  my family Klan is no longer overtly racist these days.   Even a couple of the immediate-family children have come out as gay in recent years.   So there's that they've had to "accept".  (We seem to have a gay gene that runs through my dad's side of the family.  Extended-family off-spring (my cousins) have also come out as same-sex-oriented. A high-percentage of the family, I'd say.)

          They really love my parents' (now "parent", my dad) beautiful, young, Black, CNA caregiver, and her family.  I often wonder how these folks feel at family gatherings where they're the only Black folks there.   (And especially among my Tea-Party-ist, Obama-hating Klan.  To make her feel better, I'm today sending her a lovely Obama-2012-bling (rhinestone-sparkle) pin to wear. ;)

          So the family Klan has come a long way.  But they're still not above making sneering racist jokes (especially about The President) among themselves in private.  I'm sure there is no way they'd ever sit through To Kill A Mockingbird.    I'll ask 'em about that, though, next time I see 'em.

          •  I feel that TKAM (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sockpuppet

            is a proud portrayal of the South, just as some consider GWTW to be such a portrayal.  

            One of my favorite passages of the book is when the narrator (Scout, or Miss Lee herself) describes Maycomb as a county that seceded from Alabama when Alabama seceded from the Union, making me understand that all of the south was not this monolith of STATES RIGHTS (by those in the South) or TRAITORS (by those in the North).

            My roots are in Yankee New England.  I can go back several generations who were born in Vermont or Masssachusetts, and have family stories of proud Abolitionist ancestors and, yet Vermont is, still, over 95% white.

            It's about time I changed my signature.

            by Khun David on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 09:36:40 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Just a quick question (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sockpuppet

            Why not ask her directly?

            I now live in Maryland, but grew up in upstate New York, and had a strong connection with Vermont.  A few years ago, co-workers and I were talking about family traditions.  I mentioned that my grandmother always served succotash for Thanksgiving dinner.  

            I was surprised when one co-worker said that she never heard of a white family eating succotash. It seemed to me that this wouldn't be all that uncommon and thinking that succotash incorporates two of the three sisters (of course, squash was also part of dinner).  But, as I say, my family history strongly incorporates New England.

            It's about time I changed my signature.

            by Khun David on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 10:01:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah. YANKEES, through and through (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Khun David

              See?   The old knee-jerk prejudice still runs deep, even through me as a radical progressive Democrat.   I guess I need to work on that a bit more... ;)

              I used to regale the family Klan gatherings with my mimicking of "Yankees" who've invaded South Florida.  Don't get me started... ;)

              That said, I've been fascinated by everyone in this diary who's recounted about their Union Northern heritage and Civil War viewpoints.   It's not like I've ever heard much about that in my lifetime.  

              And I've never heard of a white family eating succotash, either.   Collard greens?  You betcha.  

              •  My idea once (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sockpuppet

                of southern eating was "fried, fried, fried", with no nutritional value except for calories.  Then I met collard greens, and realized that southern cooking was more than just fried chicken.

                It's about time I changed my signature.

                by Khun David on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 03:31:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  More than fried chicken (0+ / 0-)

                  Just barely.

                  Southern food is cooked in bacon fat and lard for hours.  That gooood Southern flavor in those green beans will definitely clog yer arteries.   My mother has recently passed away from heart disease, and my Dad has bypass surgery.   None of us siblings have heart problems.  Because we've all been eating healthy since we left home!

                  Fried okra?  ewwwww...but everyone in my Klan loves it but me.  ;)

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