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View Diary: Feet of clay in clippy shoes: the case against Lance Armstrong is released, and it is brutal. (40 comments)

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  •  Over the years, it just seemed harder and harder (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Garrett, Lujane, Creosote

    for me to believe that as the allegations stacked up, everyone was a liar. My experience is that when evidence starts to get overwhelming and pointing to the same conclusion, it's usually accurate. I stopped believing in Armstrong's pure athleticism long ago, and watched the last couple Tours with sadness.

    I admire what Armstrong has accomplished in raising the profile of cancer awareness. I've read the info on HGH and I do hope for his sake that it did not contribute to Armstrong's own cancer. But regardless, he certainly made the best of that situation and has done good for others out of it.

    I dunno. It seems that virtually everyone in the sport does dope, so it seems almost pointless to pretend that they don't.  Part of me says, "why bother?" But there are health risks. And there are so many kids who idolize these folks.

    There seems to be no good answer.

    © grover


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    by grover on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:05:27 PM PDT

    •  There is a good answer. Don't dope. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lujane, Creosote

      Read up on Bradley Wiggins.

      •  Two questions: (5+ / 0-)

        How often do clean cyclists win big races?

        How often do cyclists that we assume were clean do we later find out were doping all along?

        I'd love for no athletes ever to use any drugs stronger than Aleve. If you're injured, sit out until you're fully recovered. If you can't play at that level then you're not good enough.

        But I'm also a sports fan (although not a hard-core cycling fan. I follow it casually). I know what really goes on. I have friends who are and were professional athletes.

        How many Tour de France winners were not later found to have been doping?

        © grover


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        by grover on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:18:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The current Tour winner and Olympic Gold Medalist (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          synductive99, Creosote

          is a clean rider.

          •  Wiggins? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            grover

            There's been quite a few discussions about how the Sky team has been very similar to the postal teams of Lance's heyday.  It's also a bit odd that Wiggins went from a track guy/TT specialist to someone that could climb fairly well and does well in grand tours.  He and Sky might be clean but it wouldn't be surprising if they weren't.

            •  I wondered that. (0+ / 0-)

              I wondered how anyone could say with any certainty that Wiggins is clean. People used to say that with 100% certainty about Armstrong, heck right up until this year.

              But I thought maybe SantaFeMarie had info that the public lacks, and she seemed so certain.

              Otherwise, we know absolutely that clean test results mean nothing. We know that we can't trust the riders' word. How many have lied over the years? Too many, unfortunately.  

              I dunno. It's a mess.

              © grover


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              by grover on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 01:00:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  A sad part of the story, though (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      synductive99, grover, Lujane, Creosote

      After the doping disaster of the 1998 Tour, the riders had decided that 1999 was going to be clean. There was some fear of jail cell, making sure this was going to be sincere.

      At the first mountain stage, Armstrong leaves the best climbers in his dust. It's a phenomenal performance. And his blood EPO level for the race, it turns out, was through the roof.

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