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View Diary: Republicans lose the fight to keep their Nader, Gary Johnson, off the ballot (305 comments)

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  •  Ten times (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Larsstephens, PDiddie

    Ten times as many Florida Dems voted for Bush as voted for Nader.  Ten times as many.  And never once do you hear a word of angry denunciation directed at them by Dem partisans.  I guess it's because by voting for Bush they proved they were "pragmatic centrists" not  "professional leftists".

    Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

    by ActivistGuy on Mon Oct 15, 2012 at 06:15:08 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I take your point. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HeyMikey, Larsstephens

      I'm unaware of this statistic, and would have appreciated a link, but I'll take your word for it.

      However, it doesn't change the fact that Nadar got enough votes to have changed the trajectory of the 2000 race, radically, and that we can assume most of those were disillusioned Democrats.  I'm not aware of any libertarian love for Nadar.  In fact the opposite, as he is dedicated to more government regulation, not less.

      Some might have voted for Nadar, who wouldn't have otherwise voted at all.  True.  But we'll never know the exact break downs.  But imo, one thing's for sure. Third party spoilers are not good for this system.  They wick votes AWAY from the choice we really have---one of two candidates, at the loss of one of them.

      And at best case, worst case scenario, if they actually win, as Jesse Ventura did as a third party candidate in Minnesota's election for governor, they win a MAX of 30-33% of the electorate.  This is far from a mandate, and leaves 70% of the electorate feeling unsatisfied.  And if there are MORE than 3 parties, the percentage of the electorate who decrees the winner goes down from there.

      Of course, when it works for us, we like it.  But we never know when it's going to work against us.  As I said in a comment above, a workable solution to freedom of more choices is run off voting, which allows choice at the entry level, but winnows down to two candidates in the end.

      It's not just a matter of two parties, per say, it's the fact that a two party system results in a victory that at least half the nation agrees with.  

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Mon Oct 15, 2012 at 07:30:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  ActivistGuy is missing the obvious. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Larsstephens

        The Dems who voted Bush must've been on the right side of the Democratic range. They were more or less centrists. I can sorta understand how a (low-info) centrist could think, "Gore is better on issues A, B, C, but Bush is better on D, E, F. And D, E, F are more important to me, so I'm voting Bush."

        The Dems who voted Nader must've been on the left side of the Dem range. Hard to see how they could possibly think Bush was better than Gore on any damn thing.

        Gore was the lesser evil. Obama is the lesser evil. I will vote the lesser evil, and I will damn sure turn out to vote, and if we don't get the greater equal I will be grateful.

        "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

        by HeyMikey on Mon Oct 15, 2012 at 08:59:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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