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View Diary: Daily Kos Elections Live Digest: 10/16 (afternoon edition) (334 comments)

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  •  Me, too! (8+ / 0-)

    So Obama fucked up the first debate. As Rachel Maddow pointed out a couple days later, incumbent Presidents usually do. And while that gave Romney a political life preserver, it hasn't caused him to overpower Obama on the Electoral College Map.

    IMHO Biden stopped the bleeding last Thursday, and perhaps the good economic data flowing in recently have also helped Obama recover in the last few days. So all Obama needs to do tonight is hold his own and point out Romney's two-faced mendacity.

    At least Axelrod & Co. realized Obama fucked up last week, and it looks like they've prepped him to do better tonight.

    •  I hope Obama kicks Romney's teeth in tonight! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      atdnext, JBraden

      "Rahm Emaunel is the leader of the Scott Walker Wing of the Democratic Party!" -Me

      by DownstateDemocrat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 12:36:02 PM PDT

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    •  Sorry (6+ / 0-)

      But I will die repeating Obama did not fuck up at the first debate.
      He was listless and crucially Romney was very good. But watching this myth take hold so fast has been infuriating.
      There was nothing terrible about his performance. It just was not very interesting or memorable but it particularly looked bad next to Romney's engaging one. But by all objective criteria it was not anywhere near the catastrophe everybody now says it is.
      And btw if you reread Twitter and blogs during the debate, NOONE - including the pundits that went hysterical once it was done - identified the debate as going badly for Obama. It was once it was all done that the snowball effect started.

      •  It was totally expectations (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY, BeloitDem

        Romney was better than people thought he would be and Obama worse but neither was amazing or amazingly bad. I do wonder if it was the CNN snap poll that did it. The extent I mean. Because I thought Romney edged it but not by that margin.

        "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

        by conspiracy on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 12:51:27 PM PDT

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        •  I think it was (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tk421, LordMike, askew

          I actually it was the MSNBC crew that emboldened the MSM to go apeshit in turn.
          Because as you said, it was expectations that made people - including Obama supporters - tell CNN Romney had won. Heck I probably would said so myself (and notice how Dems have a structural disadvantage here since even when they lose Republicans says their candidate won, while Dems are more willing to admit they lost which means the choice is between instant polls showing a partisan draw or a Republican landslide).
          But then it snowballed into OBAMA SUCKED SO MUCH !!!!!CATASTROPHE!!!!!
          And THAT is what I think had the impact on the polls. Not Obama's performance that had nothing memorably about it (neither positive, nor negative) but the coverage of it as Obama had been crushed, ROmney was fantastic and not what the ads said,and so on

      •  debate (9+ / 0-)

        Obama didn't do anything especially bad, but he came off as unenthusiastic and he missed a bunch of opportunities to nail Romney on his BS. The first problem is easily fixed and will probably get his poll numbers back up some, but the second is harder to address in a town hall format than in a conventional debate.

        SSP poster. 43, new CA-6, -0.25/-3.90

        by sacman701 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 12:58:12 PM PDT

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        •  Seconded (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LordMike

          "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

          by conspiracy on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 01:00:54 PM PDT

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        •  There's some thinking that says (0+ / 0-)

          it's essentially impossible to call one side out effectively on this stuff, and particularly during any debate, because voters don't like when you call your opponent a liar and they are easily confused by the almost guaranteed push back of more faulty numbers and misdirection. I think there's a lot to that, although I don't think it's impossible. I suspect it requires a lot of unification around a theme about a candidate.

          "The election of Mitt Romney and a supporting congress this November would be a...disaster for America. Think of the trainwreck that has been the Conservative government in Britain since 2010. And square it."--Brad DeLong

          by bjssp on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 01:04:01 PM PDT

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          •  Biden called out the other side (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            calvinshobbes

            And do you remember what I said the president could have said?

            "It's really interesting debating Mitt Romney's body double here tonight, because for the entire campaign, Mitt Romney has advocated cutting taxes for the wealthiest [etc., etc. - short list], and the man standing here tonight denies supporting any of this. So either this man is Mitt Romney's body double, or the real Mitt Romney says one thing in private to his wealthy contributors, another to partisan crowds in the Republican primaries and at campaign events, and a completely different thing to all of you watching us on TV tonight."

            He could have said it with a smile, and it would have completely changed the reaction to the debate.

            Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

            by MichaelNY on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 02:20:17 PM PDT

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            •  There are any number of ways Obama could (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MichaelNY, LordMike

              fight back against Romney's nonsense. He's not a dumb guy in any way and he is certainly eloquent. He also has the facts on his side.

              The problem is that it's not clear whether it would be effective. Romney's claim that six studies have backed him up should be in the running for the lie of the year, if only because some of the "studies" are op/eds and blog posts. And of course, the numbers don't come close to adding up.

              Romney does not have any leg to stand on here intellectually or factually, yet it's quite likely that he say something that is shady or even downright dishonest, even something with numbers, and say it all with a smile, while all of the people watching don't develop a firm opinion one way or the other. If they instead assume it's too confusing or that all politicians lie, what good does that do us? Where do we end up?

              "The election of Mitt Romney and a supporting congress this November would be a...disaster for America. Think of the trainwreck that has been the Conservative government in Britain since 2010. And square it."--Brad DeLong

              by bjssp on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 02:48:51 PM PDT

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              •  The problem is that he didn't try hard enough (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BeloitDem

                You can't fight lies with nothing. And the thing is, he tried to debunk some lies but didn't address Romney's chameleon-like aspect of negating core campaign planks suddenly.

                Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                by MichaelNY on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 02:57:25 PM PDT

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                •  I guess that's true. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  MichaelNY

                  "The election of Mitt Romney and a supporting congress this November would be a...disaster for America. Think of the trainwreck that has been the Conservative government in Britain since 2010. And square it."--Brad DeLong

                  by bjssp on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 04:44:17 PM PDT

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    •  I hope Obama takes that SOB head off! (0+ / 0-)

      and I could care less if some ppl on here think what I said is way to much.

      Moderate Progressive, Born in Cairo, Raised in NY-11, Living in NJ-13.

      by BKGyptian89 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 01:38:43 PM PDT

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