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View Diary: We ignore election theft at our peril (31 comments)

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  •  again, you are way off topic (0+ / 0-)

    This sort of pretends to be on topic, but mostly it's another gratuitous personal attack:

    As far as eletoral cheating, every thinking person knows that millions on the right would stoop to it in a hearbeat, and that some large, albeit unknown, number are as actively engaged in it as they can figure out how to be.
    Your opinions about whether I'm a "thinking person" aren't really of general interest. The topic at hand is evidence of "extensive red-shift rigging" in 2006 and 2008, as asserted by Victoria Collier. If you have any, you really owe it to the country to present it.

    But if you want to keep attacking me instead, that's certainly your right.

    Election protection: there's an app for that!
    Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

    by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Oct 17, 2012 at 02:44:53 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Where I see an attempt to help your well needed (0+ / 0-)

      education along, you see an attack. Peculiar.

      So here it is. You clearly have a very strong skill set, just of limited scope. In "proving" that this or that didn't happen, you purport (at least implicitly, as I read it) to have also "proven" that massive efforts (at least some number of them illegal) to pervet the electoral
      process(es) are non-existent.

      For me, I won't even concede your small point, because I won't concede that no one attempting any of the numerous potential manipulations is smart enough that you can't figure out what was done. (Nor am I, obviously.)

      But all of these individual discussions fit into a larger context as well, a point that you either entirely fail to recognize (most likely) or that you are openly hostile to. And in that larger context, you simply have no leg to stand on if you want to insist that there is/are no problem(s) needing to be addressed/redressed.

      There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

      by oldpotsmuggler on Thu Oct 18, 2012 at 06:20:24 PM PDT

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      •  "purport (at least implicitly, as [you] read it)" (0+ / 0-)

        Well, that's about the size of it. You aren't responding to anything I wrote; you're rebutting something that you read me to have implicitly purported.

        A common term of art for that is "straw man." It may be that my well needed education should focus on not even trying to respond to straw man arguments, except to point them out. Certainly my wife thinks so.

        If you've convinced yourself that I'm trying to deny the existence of voter suppression efforts, there really isn't much I can say, except: Doh!

        Election protection: there's an app for that!
        Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

        by HudsonValleyMark on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 06:53:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There is a big picture and a little picture. Your (0+ / 0-)

          incessant fixation on the little picture is actually hurting our eforts to strenghten the focus on the big picture. Appropriately, you never openly disavow the legitimacy of the big picture perspective (nor could you reasonably do so even if you made the effort).

          There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

          by oldpotsmuggler on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 08:52:02 PM PDT

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          •  it's not a little picture (0+ / 0-)

            It actually makes a difference whether the 2004 election was blatantly stolen and the Democrats sold us down the river, or not. It actually makes a difference whether Tagg Romney can steal Ohio in a blink no matter what we do, or not.

            If these things didn't make a difference, the people who pretend to care more about these issues than I do would stop making the crappy "little-picture" arguments and focus on the big picture themselves.

            We're story-telling people, and our stories rarely are correct in every particular -- but seriously bad stories can seriously mess us up.

            Election protection: there's an app for that!
            Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

            by HudsonValleyMark on Sat Oct 20, 2012 at 07:29:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, I reach (at least tentative) legal conclusions (0+ / 0-)

              and my educational background is a Juris Doctorate degree. The way that I read you, much of what you present is in the area where law and facts mix, and you seem to me to be absolutely unqualified to argue application of your view of facts to the applicable law. And then to exacerbate matters, you never openly disclose instances where you may or may not have all of the facts, and the change in your conclusions if certain of your assumptions were to prove to be untenable.

              There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

              by oldpotsmuggler on Sat Oct 20, 2012 at 05:04:38 PM PDT

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    •  Here, I'll give you a concrete example. This past (0+ / 0-)

      Easter, my wife and I went majorly on the road. The portion of that trip pertinent here is that I listned to numerous right wing radio talkers, over the course of 72 hours, and and consistently in all 5 states visited, use virtually identical language/talking points non-stop in promoting "voter identification". (Okay, granted, I had my sleep breaks and such, but I'm talking numerous substantial blocks of time over the entire 72 hour period.)

      So, voter suppression! Gosh, is there anyone who does that other than right wingers, and do they do that for any reason other than blatant, raw, and effective election manipulation. Now, some would conclude that something like that happening everywhere, full speed, top volume, all of the time is probably noticeable.

      Oh, and illegal! I don't live in the Hudson Valley (been there, beautiful place), but the news where I'm from has no shortage of reports about courts slamming the brakes on one aspect or another of that whole god awful conspiracy.

      There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

      by oldpotsmuggler on Thu Oct 18, 2012 at 06:39:44 PM PDT

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