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View Diary: George McGovern, 1922-2012. R.I.P. (190 comments)

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  •  One major difference (6+ / 0-)

    was that there was an entire industry devoted to mis-remembering VietNam. The Reaganite/Rightwing used the divisiveness of VietNam to split Labor off from Liberals, to isolate those opposed to the war from the rest of society and after we lost and left, to cover over the massive blunder our "Leaders" had led US through, scapegoating the Anti-War crowd.
    Officially, we took all the wrong lessons from VietNam and ignored all the points that should have been nailed home.
    People like McGovern and before him, McCarthy and after him Kucinich, not to mention the protesters at ground level, have never been fully rehabilitated, there never has been a reckoning for the careers stunted, the reputations destroyed, the characters assassinated by the disinformers.

    •  Mis-remembering, yes, but that ain't it. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      YellerDog, Heart of the Rockies

      The US has not been in any real hurry to enter other people's wars since VietNam.

      The real mis-remembering is on the Democratic side, which seems to forget that Vietnam was a Democratic war.
      Kennedy opened the door and Johnson ran right through it.

      And -- oh!
      It was Democrats v Democrats in 1968 in Chicago.

      More anti-war folks leaned Democrat than in other directions, but more than a few Republicans were less than thrilled about sending their sons off to die.

      And, interestingly, it was a Democrat who took us into the Balkans (not our war) and a Democrat who committed US forces to Libya (not our war -- and surprise! Now rife with chaos, tribalism, and militias vying for power).

      And, of course, it is a Democrat who has jumped in with both feet and embraced death by drone.

      I would have mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan, but that doesn't quite fit your criteria.  As many things may have been wrong about Iraq, it was instigated by a major attack on American soil.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Sun Oct 21, 2012 at 07:58:46 AM PDT

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      •  A democratic war true (0+ / 0-)

        But Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara was a northeastern moderate republican.

        "I come close to despair because so many of the pieces of the country are broken, and when you see that, you have two choices: You can give up, or you can do something about it." Elizabeth Warren

        by Ed in Montana on Sun Oct 21, 2012 at 08:15:10 AM PDT

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      •  I was with you until this (11+ / 0-)
        As many things may have been wrong about Iraq, it was instigated by a major attack on American soil.
         You don't REALLY believe, this, do you? If you do, you've completely blown your credibility. Iraq had as much to do with 9/11 as Thailand had to do with Pearl Harbor.

        "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

        by Buzzer on Sun Oct 21, 2012 at 08:27:03 AM PDT

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        •  ^^Well said!! n/t (0+ / 0-)

          The Republicans are defunding, not defending, America.

          by DSPS owl on Sun Oct 21, 2012 at 10:44:50 AM PDT

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        •  Absolutely, I believe it. (0+ / 0-)

          Read the sentence.
          I didn't say Iraq attacked the US.  I said the Iraq war was instigated by a major attack on American soil.

          Not the same thing.

          And, btw, you can make snarky statements about Iraq's involvement with 9/11, but you can't make them be true.

          At best, you can confidently say that the 9/11 commission didn't find evidence linking Iraq directly to the attacks.

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Sun Oct 21, 2012 at 03:15:04 PM PDT

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          •  The Iraq war (0+ / 0-)

            was instigated by Bush's attempt to avenge his father, by cherry-picked and manipulated intelligence that led to the lie that Saddam Hussein had WMDs, and by Cheney and his cronies' desire to create a "New American Century" beginning by imposing democracy in Iraq. What happened on 9/11 was a convenient excuse, not a reason.

            "The universe is made of stories, not atoms." -Muriel Rukeyser

            by tubacat on Sun Oct 21, 2012 at 03:30:01 PM PDT

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            •  You are free to believe that. (0+ / 0-)

              But that is nothing more than an opinion.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Sun Oct 21, 2012 at 04:02:21 PM PDT

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              •  Look it up (0+ / 0-)

                Project for the New American Century

                Most of the major key judgments in the Intelligence Community’s October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE), Iraq’s Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction, either overstated, or were not supported by, the underlying intelligence reporting. A series of failures, particularly in analytic trade craft, led to the mischaracterization of the intelligence.
                Senate Report on Pre-war Intelligence on Iraq

                I'll admit that the idea that Bush wanted to avenge his father is an opinion. But it's based on

                evidence

                "The universe is made of stories, not atoms." -Muriel Rukeyser

                by tubacat on Sun Oct 21, 2012 at 08:02:47 PM PDT

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                •  The evidence suggests Iraq was a mistake, (0+ / 0-)

                  ginned up by people anxious to smite the bad guys, without sufficient regard for whom the bad guys might really be.

                  North Korea and Iran were too dangerous.
                  Iraq could be justified on a technicality left over from the gulf war, was headed up by a genuinely nasty character who killed his own people with abandon, and who presented a relatively small military obstacle.

                  And -- he did have something like 500 tons of yellow cake uranium hanging around.

                  As to avenging Bush 41, I am at a loss WRT what there was to avenge.  Last I looked, Bush 41 pretty much wiped the floor with the Iraqis in Desert Storm.  It was a masterful operation that showed what real diplomatic chops look like, much to the relative disadvantage of every administration that has followed it.

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 04:21:41 AM PDT

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