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View Diary: Daily Kos Is in Denial About What We Face. (227 comments)

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  •  I don't think either half of that is right (0+ / 0-)
    but a wildly divergent result would be a flag that something was up

    Again: the exit poll projections said that Kerry won Minnesota, New Hampshire, and Pennsylvania by 14-15 points each, and New York by 31 points. Does any knowledgeable political observer really think that that is anywhere near correct? I mean, there were a bunch of double-digit discrepancies, and arguably in every case, the exit poll result was ridiculous. How useful is that as a "flag"? The true believers can talk about the science until they're blue in the face, but science uses data, and the data say, "pshaw." This is true no matter what one believes about fraud in any particular contest.

    whereas with no exit polling you can't tell a thing.
    Why not? In Ohio, every vote cast will be recorded on either a paper ballot or a voter-verifiable paper record, which is the ballot of record in a recount. So, if you want to do election protection in Ohio, you have to think about the paper. It freaks me out how few people who are worried about Ohio seem to think about the paper, at all.

    (There are states where every vote is recorded on a full paper ballot; there are other states where there is no voter-verifiable record at all.)

    Election protection: there's an app for that! -- and a toll-free hotline: 866-OUR-VOTE
    Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

    by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 08:14:44 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Interesting thing about that (0+ / 0-)

      Here in MO we have the option, touch screen or fill in the ovals and then let it record. But on the occasion when they have done recounts (iirc in WI) they just ran the oval filled ballots through the reader again. Now why they didn't use the paper ballots I don't know.

      American Television is a vast sea of stupid. -xxdr zombiexx

      by glitterscale on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 02:10:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  good question, or I think 2 questions (0+ / 0-)

        In many jurisdictions voters have the choice of paper ballot or touch screens, with or without paper records (depending on the jurisdiction). There are some jurisdictions where a lot of people choose the touch screens. That can be unfortunate, especially if there are no paper records.

        (To be cheerier about the ones that are verifiable, it's sort of nice if they work well enough that people want to use them, instead of being a system of last resort for people who for various reasons don't do well with paper ballots. But paper ballots are better for verification than printed paper records in a bunch of ways -- how much so depends on the system.)

        Some jurisdictions do hand recounts of paper ballots; some do machine retabulations; some allow either one. I don't think retabs are totally useless, especially if different machines are used, but I surely don't support them.

        In the WI Supreme Court recount, IIRC, some of the scanned ballots were hand counted, and others were rescanned, depending on the original equipment. Again IIRC, one kind of scanner relied on a memory card or stick, and they didn't want either to obliterate election records (the cards/sticks as of election day) or to require municipalities to obtain new ones, if that was even possible.

        Election protection: there's an app for that! -- and a toll-free hotline: 866-OUR-VOTE
        Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

        by HudsonValleyMark on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:40:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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