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View Diary: Armstrong - Winning in an Age of Liars (132 comments)

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  •  And Romney's lies are untrue (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CarbonFiberBoy, Lujane, collardgreens

    Armstrong really did finish first seven times in the Tour de France.

    It's not like Romney defeated Obama with honest intellectual debate, and only later we learned that Romney had rhinoed a few lines of meth before each debate.

    "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

    by Subterranean on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 10:42:02 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  No comparison between Lance and Mitt (4+ / 0-)

      I'm not a huge cycling fan, but it seems to me that it should be like football plays.  If the ref didn't see it, it didn't happen.  You don't call a foul after the fact during replay.  Replays are only used to overturn calls.  "The ruling on the field stands" or "The ruling on the field is reversed."

      What are they going to do about Lance's 7 Tour victories?  Are the second place finishers going to be elevated to 1st?  What a farce.  It would be like reading that your team didn't win that game last night.  The last play was reviewed and it turns out the offense held, so the game winning touchdown pass didn't count.  Doesn't happen.  Ever.

      Even if a player is found to have doped.  No game results are altered.  They are banned from future games (unlike Lance).  

      Now to compare Lance to Romney who flip-flops with every speech, who fibs and lies about everything is ludicrous.  According to 42% of Mitt Romney's statements that they've checked are mostly false, false or "pants on fire" false.   I've read that Politifact has Romney at well over half of the total amount of “Pants of Fire” lies (58.6%) of all the candidates combined!

      These lies are all being caught before the game is over.  The refs are calling foul.  But is he being penalized?  Not so much.  Certainly, his candidacy is not being revoked (as it should be).

      Even Democrats can be asses. Look at Rahm Emanuel.

      by Helpless on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 11:25:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You are missing some information (6+ / 0-)

        In fact the current recommendation from the ASO (who owns the Tour de France) is NOT to award Lance's "victories" to any other rider. There will simply be no winner for those years. It remains to be seen whether the UCI will conform to that ASO recommendation.

        I don't see how Romney lying about everything and Armstrong lying about the most important thing, over and over for ten years is that different. Is Armstrong to be given credit for not lying about where he was having dinner (his most popular twitter subject). Armstrong spent the last ten years lying about former teammates, journalists, investigators and anyone else who dared to question him.

        Without question the implications of Romney's lies are far more series, but Armstrong's integrity in no better.

        •  they share a lack of integrity (4+ / 0-)

          and overweening ambition.

          A standing army is like a standing member. It's an excellent assurance of domestic tranquility, but a dangerous temptation to foreign adventure. Elbridge Gerry - Constitutional Convention (1787)

          by No Exit on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 12:09:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I applaud this diary, but I think the attempt (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Garrett, glorificus, kaliope, Helpless

          to equate Romney and Armstrong is misguided.  

          Cheating in sports is cheating in sports.  This is a REALLY horrible example of that because Lance, it would seem, spun a huge web of lies in the process.

          But sports is not leader of the free world.  Millions of people's lives and the potential future of the planet are not at stake in the race for the yellow jersey.  

          I'd just have left Romney out of this.  The Armstrong story and insight stands on its own.

          Certainly from our standpoint, this gives us a sense of momentum -- when the United States has accolades tossed its way, rather than shoes. - PJ Crowley

          by nsfbr on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 12:13:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Nowhere was it suggested (4+ / 0-)

            that there's an equivalency in the importance or world impact of the lies. It's a simple observation that both men have established a new level of mendacity that's excused or approved in their respective fields.

            Lance's behavior went far beyond the know or imagined boundaries of sport

            •  I think we are going to have to agree to (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              disagree on this.  Imho, the diary is better without using Romney's name at all.  (By the way, then it becomes timeless, as on November 7th Romney is simply a resident of the trashbin of history.  Lance is going down in history for a lot of reasons.)

              Certainly from our standpoint, this gives us a sense of momentum -- when the United States has accolades tossed its way, rather than shoes. - PJ Crowley

              by nsfbr on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 06:32:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  We agree on Romney for the Trashbin ;-) (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Regina in a Sears Kit House
                •  I don't understand how the polls can be so close (0+ / 0-)

                  Is there collusion here?

                  If course the media wants to keep the race close to boost ratings, newspaper sales, etc.  Are they shaping this contest like a crooked ref?  Calling just enough fouls to keep Romney a couple of points behind?

                  And speaking of crooked refs?  I know doping used to be common in cycling.  Could it be that everyone still dopes and the ASO (who I understand hated that an American has won 7 Tours) and the US doping agency just took him down for political reasons?  Sort of destroys the "integrity" of the sport, I know, but the temptations must be huge for such a grueling sport.

                  I assume Lance was taking stuff that wasn't banned at the time -- hence the clean tests.  Is that doping?  Just asking.

                  Even Democrats can be asses. Look at Rahm Emanuel.

                  by Helpless on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 12:05:43 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Collusion (0+ / 0-)

                    I do believe there's plenty of evidence of media partisanship. Whether it's the mindless horse race mentality, the willful misinterpretation of the truth, the minimization of voter suppression or biased poll screening... it's all rather sad.

                    Re: Cycling

                    The French are naturally proud of their race but I don't believe they had it in for Armstrong until his performance raised legitimate concerns (that now have been proven true).

                    I don't believe the majority of professional cyclists are currently doping.

                    NO - Lance cheated taking substances and employing methods that were banned at the time. He passed the tests by employing sophisticated methods to micro dose, avoid timely tests, dilute blood and urine samples to slip past the tests. In addition it appears he paid off the UCI to hide positive results when he did test positive. Armstrong is a cheat and a liar period. He's certainly not been a victim of any political witch hunt, if anything he's benefited from political cover.

    •  No, analogy's fine. Romney, too, has traveled (3+ / 0-)

      across American multiple times in his 6-year Prez campaign.

      He has given zillions of talks to people he doesn't care for.

      He has participated in dozens of debates.

      Still, a crook is a crook. Just like Armstrong, whom - I must admit as a total outsider to cycling world - has always seemed a bit fishy to me.

      That Bushesque Texan swagger rarely comes from a real place.

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