Skip to main content

View Diary: Benghazi Blowback Confirmed: US Intel Confirms Attack Linked to Pipeline of Libyan Jihadis to Syria (68 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  This is supposed to be a timeline of Syria? (0+ / 0-)

    This comment is an outrage. The protests in Syria remained peaceful FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS. That was the time period during which civilian deaths ran about 5-6 a day. To be honest, those of us who had followed events in Libya thought the Syrians were crazy, that their efforts in the direction of nonviolent resistance were wasted in the face of madness like Assad's.

    And as concerns Libya, just for the record, the eventual violent overthrow of the Gaddafi government in Benghazi was a massive popular reaction to DECADES of murders, massacres, kidnappings and other kinds of state terrorism.

    In Syria - I know no one is going to say this so I will - the PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATIONS HAVE NEVER STOPPED. Last Friday there were OVER FOUR HUNDRED peaceful demonstrations - some held at night - against the regime, all over Syria.

    The Free Syrian Army began as a means of protecting the demonstrators. It continues to fulfill that function. But in the beginning, the Free Syrian Army fighters did not think they would be able to defeat Assad.

    Everybody thought they would have to have help from the West, because Assad, like Gaddafi, was attacking civilians with massively disproportionate force thanks to advanced weapons acquired from Russia (in this case).

    Now the FSA knows they can win freedom for their country without US help! And it's not the case that if a country doesn't get its revolutionary victory handed to it by the US, the only alternative is "ZOMG Salafists!"

    If anybody ever says anything to you about Salafists, just say this: "Who is the leader of the Salafists? I mean, even al-Qaeda has identifiable leaders."

    Get rid of Assad and get Russia out of Syria, and there is no more significant roadblock to peace in the region. And in thirty years, a majority-Arab Israel will be on good terms with all its Arab neighbors.

    •  What about Iran? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joe shikspack
      Get rid of Assad and get Russia out of Syria, and there is no more significant roadblock to peace in the region. And in thirty years, a majority-Arab Israel will be on good terms with all its Arab neighbors.
      And how many other governments must be overthrown?


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 11:17:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Bush plan (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joanneleon

        called for forcible regime change in Iraq, Iran and Syria.   Don't know if that plan has been updated recently.  Identifying the "most significant roadblock to Peace in the region" is a bit more problematic

      •  um, none (0+ / 0-)

        First point I was making is that Assad is a goner, courtesy of your friendly neighborhood Free Syrian Army. No US intervention necessary, just keep keeping the Russians honest - which you would do anyway.

        As for Iran, well, they're going to lose their major outlet for FP adventurism in this anyway. Hezbollah troops are being killed every day in Syria, and once Syria is free, I don't really think Lebanon and Jordan are going to mind watching Hezbollah shrink.

        Meanwhile, Iran is going through the worst economic crisis of its revolutionary history - courtesy of your friendly neighborhood sanctions. They are looking at a more than 30% contraction in their manufacturing sector, they can't pump enough oil to fulfill their Chinese contracts, and segments of their government are at each other's throats.

        Iran is not going to be able to afford a lot of foreign entanglements in the years to come. They may not be able to afford a lot of military-related research. The fear that they will acquire a nuclear bomb is way overdone, although American candidates are required to say they must never have one.

        There is an opposition in Iran. Periodically they make their presence known, as you may remember. Syria is a disaster for the Khamenei government.

        Now, the relations between Iran and Iraq are another matter. But the notion that seemed to underlie your comment - that the US has to overthrow a bunch of governments - is unrealistic at best.

         

      •  The destabilization of Lebanon is next. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        leveymg, joanneleon

        Syria is fait accompli. This country has now been completely destabilized and can no longer project power in the region.

        The problem now is to prevent the complete collapse of the Syrian regime as happened in Libya. This would open up the armories for looting on a massive scale which would be tens of times worse than what had occurred in Libya. Syria has many more advanced weapons which would readily fall into the hands of the better equipped, trained and motivated Islamic jihadist's that have steadily flooded into the country from around the world.

        The only way to stop the looting would be with boots on the ground. But the only boots that can be used are the Syrian regime forces. Any western boots on Syrian soil would ignite the entire region. Turkish and Arab forces also could not do this due to pressures they would receive in their home countries. Therefore, Assad's regime must not be allowed to completely collapse. We will see a slowing down of arming the rebels and more of an acceptance for a political solution. Unfortunately, illicit arms supply will not slow down to the jihadists who do not want a political solution so it is better that Assad be seen to be killing these 'rebels'. Another solution would be having the "good" (US backed) rebels fight and kill the "bad" rebels.

        I think NATO, Qatar and the Saudis expected Assad to step down or fall quicker and are completely unprepared for what has occurred. Remember Clinton stating a year ago that it would be a matter months for Assad to fall?

        They have opened Pandora's box. Blowback is a bitch.

        •  open Assadism (0+ / 0-)

          "the only boots that can be used are the Syrian regime forces"

          Unfortunately for you, they're not going to be available.

          Your remarks are complete nonsense, fearmongering, and anti-Islamic racism.

          •  Don't expect the rebels to protect the regime's (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            leveymg

            massive armories or the WMD storage areas. These will be looted just as they were in Libya. If there is a complete collapse of the regime, NATO will have to send in tens of thousands - I believe the estimate given was about 60,000 just to secure the WMD's. Syria is a tougher nut to crack than Iraq.

            Watch the US and Turkey apply less pressure on the Assad regime and scale back arms supply to the rebels in the near future. They will also start to look seriously at a political solution - something they should have been doing over a year ago.

            Qatar and the Saudis will continue to supply arms and money to the militant Islamist's because they have less to lose and everything to gain with Syria having a religious Sunni government to match their own.

        •  the silliness of some of these statements (0+ / 0-)

          "Syria is fait accompli" What?

          (Syria) "can no longer project power in the region" What in the world are you talking about? They're projecting a ton of power, they're just using it to kill their own citizens - or do you think the whole population of Syria are jihadists, and Assad's army your only friend? I could believe that.

          "Assad's regime must not be allowed to completely collapse" Um, how are you going to stop it?

          "having the good rebels kill the bad rebels" We need you in the State Dept.

          I don't support hide ratings but C. Bom. is a troll. Nothing less.

    •  Here's a timeline for Syria. Armed resistance (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Claudius Bombarnac

      started on April 8, 2011.  There were no significant demonstrations in Syria until a protest in Damascus involving a couple hundred people on February 5 following the first protest that followed the internet Call for Days of Rage a few days earlier.

      Daraa, a city near the Jordanian border in Southern Syria, was the site of the first armed clashes and massacres in early April.

      The fighting with military defectors was a battle that developed within the context of armed uprising in Daraa. The events of April 8 that led to the arrival two weeks later of large number of government troops are key to understanding how the violence was sparked and why the use of force by the regime escalated. There were three key actions that sparked the crackdown: snipers, the burning of the Ba'ath Party Headquarters by a large, armed mob, and the killing of 19 policemen and security personnel. http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      8 April – "Friday of Resistance"
      External videos
      Unknown Gunmen Filmed at Syria Demo
      (YouTube: Associated Press.)
      8 April 2011. Retrieved 9 April 2011.
      Protests in Duma near Damascus

      On the third Friday called "Friday of Resistance", thousands of protesters took to streets in Daraa, Latakia, Tartus, Edlib, Baniyas, Qamishli, Homs and the Damascus suburb of Harasta, in the largest protest yet.

      27 anti-government protesters were killed in Daraa and many other were wounded when security forces opened fire with rubber bullets and live rounds to disperse stone-throwing protesters. The clashes started when thousands of prayers staged rallies following the Friday prayers. In a telephone call one of the activists told the news agencies that demonstrators, starting from three mosques, have marched to the city's main court where they were confronted by security forces dressed in civilian clothing. A witness told Reuters he saw "snipers on roofs." It was also reported that another resident has seen "pools of blood and three bodies" in the Mahatta area of Daraa. The protesters have also smashed a stone statue of Basil al-Assad, the brother of the current President of the country, and set fire to a Ba'ath Party outpost. The state-run Syrian Television reported that 19 police officers and members of the security forces have been killed in Daraa.

      You may view the original AP Raw Feed from Daraa on April 8 which shows the mob and the snipers, here:

      http://www.youtube.com/... - (URL for:

      Raw Video: Deadly Day of Protests in Syria - YouTube
      ► 1:13► 1:13

      www.youtube.com Apr 8, 2011 - 1 min - Uploaded by AssociatedPress
      State-run Syrian TV says 19 police officers and security forces have been killed in southern city of Daraa. (April 8)

      •  First Syrian mass protests March 15, 2011 (0+ / 0-)

        15 March – "Day of Rage"

        External videos
            First explicit demonstration against the Syrian regime Damascus, Syria, 15 March 2011 on YouTube

        Simultaneous demonstrations took place in major cities across Syria. Thousands of protesters gathered in al-Hasakah, Daraa, Deir ez-Zor, and Hama. There were some clashes with security, according to reports from dissident groups. In Damascus, a smaller group of 200 men grew spontaneously to about 1,500 men. Damascus has not seen such uprising since the 1980s. The official Facebook page called "Syrian Revolution 2011" showed pictures of supportive demonstrations in Cairo, Nicosia, Helsinki, Istanbul and Berlin. There were also unconfirmed news that Syrian revolution supporters of Libyan descent, stormed into the Syrian Embassy in Paris.[49][50][51][52][53]

        Another recently released political figure, Suhair Atassi, became an unofficial spokesperson for the "Syrian revolution", when she was interviewed by dozens of Arab and international media channels regarding the uprising. There were reports of 6 arrested in Damascus.[54][55][56][57] Atassi paid tribute to "the Syrian people who took the initiative ahead of the opposition," recalling the popular uprisings that shook Tunisia and Egypt[48] After the first day of the uprising there were reports about approximately 3000 arrests and a few "martyrs", but there are no official figures on the number of deaths.[58]

      •  There was an infiltration of armed foreign (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        leveymg

        fighters entering the country in April according to an Al Jazeera reporter who, along with several others, eventually resigned because Al Jazeera refused to report this development.

        Al Jazeera Journalist Explains Resignation over Syria and Bahrain Coverage

        JAY: So what—before we go further into your own story, let's back up one step. What exactly did you see in terms of arms going into Syria? Who do you think (or were you able to tell?) was supplying the arms?

        HASHEM: Actually, I can't identify who's really supplying the arms, but actually we saw armed men just crossing the river, the great northern river, which is the only, you know, natural barrier between Lebanon and Syria. They were just crossing that barrier and going into Syria, and then clashing with the Syrian Army. That was in May. And even something similar happened in April, but it wasn't on camera. But in May it was on camera and we had the footage, and, you know, no one wanted to have them on air. At that time, you know, everybody was watching. You know, we were, as journalists, myself, were the only, you know, Arab channel, news channel on the borders, and we were trying to, you know, see what's going on over there. [crosstalk]

        JAY: So this is—you're talking almost a year ago now, then.

        HASHEM: Yeah, yeah, that was in May, that was in May, May 2011.

        •  you propagandize in favor of Assad (0+ / 0-)

          One conversation with an Al Jazeera reporter - and an accusation that is all the more convincing to you, apparently, because there's such a massive body of evidence on the other side.

          Your views have been clear for a while.

          Anybody who thinks the Free Syrian Army is dominated or even significantly influenced by jihadists is either blind, or has some other reason for ignoring the plain truth.

          •  You have yet to back up any of your statements (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            leveymg

            with any links.

            Anybody who thinks the Free Syrian Army is dominated or even significantly influenced by jihadists is either blind, or has some other reason for ignoring the plain truth.
            Every MSM in the US, UK, EU, ME have reported that jihadists and Islamic militant's are now playing a major and decisive role in the Syrian conflict.

            Here's a report from last February:

            Jihadist Opportunities in Syria
            February 14, 2012

            In an eight-minute video clip titled "Onward, Lions of Syria" disseminated on the Internet Feb. 12, al Qaeda chief Ayman al-Zawahiri expressed al Qaeda's support for the popular unrest in Syria. In it, al-Zawahiri urged Muslims in Turkey, Iraq, Lebanon and Jordan to aid the Syrian rebels battling Damascus. The statement comes just days after a McClatchy report quoted unnamed American intelligence officials as saying that the Iraqi node of the global jihadist network carried out two attacks against Syrian intelligence facilities in Damascus, while Iraqi Deputy Interior Minister Adnan al-Assadi said in a recent interview with AFP that Iraqi jihadists were moving fighters and weapons into neighboring Syria.

            •  #syria #fsa #aleppo (0+ / 0-)

              I'm not going to accuse you of anything (else). There are enough links and stories in this world - that you can take one bit from months ago, and a statement from someone who has nothing to do with Syria, and come up all bully-boy with "where are your links".

              Go on Twitter, and start with those three hash tags. They will lead you to more videos than you can watch, and to more stories in reputable (and disreputable) publications than you can read.

              Demo vids, defector vids, the major Syrian tweeps. It's true that a lot of ink has been spilled over the possibility of jihadist influence in Syria. And all I can tell anyone is, it's all pretty well known, and it's far from significant. The Free Syrian Army is a homegrown revolutionary movement that almost makes blood taste sweet, it is so good. I don't envy the Syrians their living conditions but I envy them their culture and their history. The Free Syrian Army has made military history already, and together with the demonstrators they have never abandoned, they are going to change the history of the Middle East for the better.

              •  You depend on Twitter and Facebook for (0+ / 0-)

                your "facts"?

                To take just one item - "defector vids". Did you know that the Syrian military has ten times as many generals per number of soldiers as the Turkish which itself is very top heavy compared to the American. Assad's regime gave commissions as favors. This is why these defections did not affect the regime as much as was expected. Hundreds of these defectors have simply left the country and are not involved in the fighting.

                I don't envy the Syrians their living conditions but I envy them their culture and their history.
                Which part of history? Ottoman rule or the French Mandate? Syrian history has a lot of blood in it.
          •  The FSA is almost entirely Sunni. This is Jihad (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Claudius Bombarnac

            whether you want to call it that, or not.

            You are denying the obvious that this has turned into a religious civil war.  It's really a resumption of the '76-'82 "Long War of Terror", which was the last Sunni uprising against the Shi'ia-dominated minority regime and the Ba'ath Party.  That war too, which left about the same number of casualties on both sides, was essentially a religiously-based civil war.  In other words, a Jihad.

            Yes, frenchman,  by that historical standard, the Free Syrian Army is dominated and significantly influenced by jihadists.

            Pointing out the futility and danger of the US taking sides between two warring groups of Jihadis is not Assad propaganda, as the regime would never make that point.

            You're a bully who uses ad hominem attacks and don't seem particularly capable of arguing from facts.

      •  so you support Assad (0+ / 0-)

        You're basically saying that the events of one day marked the end of peaceful demonstrations, and the beginning of armed resistance, and you're justifying Assad's response.

        The evidence on the other side is so massive that no one can contest it.

        Why do you hate freedom so much?

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site