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View Diary: Prop 37: two alternative viewpoints (79 comments)

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  •  Monsanto would do more for GMO tech (3+ / 0-)

    by investing in a proudly-labeled food product that had actual benefits to the end consumer than they have ever gained with all the money they've spent fighting these various initiatives.

    On the other hand, initiatives like this are a perverted form of economic stimulus. Monsanto outspent our county's initiative 10 to 1 ... and still lost. :-)

    Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

    by elfling on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 02:24:30 PM PDT

    •  Funny, (2+ / 0-)

      they don't really need to, because their customers--farmers--are buying the seeds in a pretty big way. Unlike some people, I don't think farmers are stupid. They are buying a product that works well for them and delivers the characteristics they want.

      “I apologise ...for not making myself clear. I should have said that this new age drivel is undermining the very fabric of our civilisation --@ProfBrianCox

      by mem from somerville on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:46:24 PM PDT

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      •  Just to be clear (3+ / 0-)

        I don't think they're stupid either. My neighbors are farmers... although not grains and not GMO.

        But if there's risk from eating the grain, they're not taking it. I am. Why should I have to accept that risk?

        That's my fundamental issue with the way GMO technology is practiced in the US - that the main intended benefit is financial for the producer. Some farmers have also seen financial benefits... and many haven't. But the end consumer, who is part of this web, is not seeing even the financial benefit.

        This objection would go away if the product was engineered to benefit end users. More nutritious corn, for example. Then at least there'd be something in it for us.

        If something goes wrong with any of these products, it's consumers who will be the ones dealing with the corrective action. All the risk, no reward.

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:56:03 PM PDT

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        •  Well I think increased efficiency (2+ / 0-)

          and reduced land use are benefits to me, planet-wise. I love the blight-resistant potato tests which are showing good results. That spraying is heinous, and reducing that is a benefit to farmers and to me as well, I feel.

          And even though I don't personally benefit I'm glad the Hawaiian papaya industry was saved.

          I happen to also think reducing food costs is a big deal--not for the well fed, perhaps, but for those who don't have the money for organics it matters.

          But I am also eager for the consumer benefit products, like the increased nutrition and the improved glycemic index wheat and such. If some people weren't weed-whacking that stuff down, we might be closer.

          “I apologise ...for not making myself clear. I should have said that this new age drivel is undermining the very fabric of our civilisation --@ProfBrianCox

          by mem from somerville on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:03:21 PM PDT

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          •  The roundup ready products (3+ / 0-)

            aren't making big strides in cost-effectiveness and they actually create more spraying, not less.

            And grain prices are extremely high. I haven't found any study that shows GMO grains have reduced costs to consumers. Some farmers have come out ahead financially, but many did not after the added costs that came with it.

            Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

            by elfling on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:24:48 PM PDT

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            •  has your research (2+ / 0-)

              uncovered anything about soil depletion?

            •  That's also false (1+ / 0-)

              Food prices are a much smaller fraction of a typical family's budget than they ever have been in the past.

              And here's more about sustainability gains due to reduced sprayings of various sorts.

              ....the amount of energy spent on farming has fallen by 40% to 60%, probably because farmers who plant genetically modified crops are driving tractors less frequently to spray pesticides and herbicides.
              You'll also see less water used, and more, in that article.

              “I apologise ...for not making myself clear. I should have said that this new age drivel is undermining the very fabric of our civilisation --@ProfBrianCox

              by mem from somerville on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 07:00:28 AM PDT

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              •  Bought corn lately? :-) (1+ / 0-)

                I realize there are many factors influencing the price of grains, including ethanol and a drought this year, but it's around double what it cost in 2008, which is a huge problem for livestock farmers. A similar pattern is found in other grains. If there's any decrease in cost, it's not detectable against the larger pattern.

                At the grocery store, the raw ingredient price is a much smaller portion of the input, so the change is less noticeable in the price of your bag of cheezy poofs.

                Your link talks about increases in efficiency and techniques in farming in general, not specific to GMO crops, which actually are associated with a larger use of herbicide. There's no question that science and technology have brought us huge gains in efficiency in farming - including in organic farming techniques.

                Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

                by elfling on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 07:53:27 AM PDT

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        •  sent you email re gov granholm that's important (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber

          thanks

          Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Mohandas K. Gandhi

          by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:05:45 PM PDT

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