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View Diary: Retired NSA Analyst Proves GOP Is Stealing Elections (203 comments)

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  •  if there were vote total fiddling... where likely? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    judyms9, lgmcp, MA Mom, SolarAngel

    key states only would be the most effective... but risky  too, so only used sparingly and not safe to extend it just used carefully in selected and protected areas that will make the most difference... And of course this would not be anything remotely like in a total dictatorship with wholesale blatant theft with things like 100% turnout and 99% of the faithful citizens "voting" for the dear leader etc... no, instead in an advanced democracy this would need careful planning and targeted, deniable, fiddling only where things would tip the balance in key battlegrounds. The fewer in on it the safer it is. And very much like a non-credible CT story... who would believe it?

    So anyway, what about a state like Indiana in 2008? It would have been considered safe GOP so no fiddling would need to be planned there since it would be assumed to go Red anyway based on past experience. Oops for them but in the end they were losing way beyond their plan limits. Too many other states were out of reach and the margins in the funny business target states were unworkable too.

    But key states like Fla and Ohio... and WI and a very few others at most... this is where it would have been done in the past if it was being done and where it likely will happen again. Suspect that the 2010 wave was bigger than it would have been due to a lot of this kind of fiddle and there are enough clues that it could be true at least in some places... the monopoly of severe conservative corporations owning voting machine companies does make you wonder.....

    But even that is not enough so it would have to be augmented with the more overt tactics and strategies related to voter suppression, electoral fraud etc. nationwide to make a wider difference and help make the covert fiddles possible in the key target states if and as needed..... and don't forget there is also help via any other local safe conservative areas where more traditional methods and fiddles are routine but usually only ensure the same GOP winners in local and state elections... and some US reps working alongside all the fancier efforts.

    Vote count fraud (if real... and the same problems in the same places over and over does suggest there is something to it) is only one strand of the wider agenda of the Right... but vital if they want to win.

    Citizens United is the big money influence part of the multi prong GOP plan for electoral dominance ... ALEC and other agents are part of the voter suppression prong... taking the state legislatures in time for reapportionment was another prong... and continuing suspected vote count fiddling is another part of the plan... the more obviously illegal but control of key state level officials offers protection and key allies in setting things up or looking the other way... and as for the National level... justice Dept... there are still a lot of Bush holdovers among the US attorneys and there are helpful judges too... it is a mix of effective and ineffective... people who are pushing for the truth and those who are stonewalling or deflecting...

    The Republicans are nowhere squeaky clean in their election strategies and tactics... they do play fast and loose and make their own rules... over and over they get caught but usually get away with it and any hints of more that did not quite get revealed gets forgotten. And most of it is out in  plain sight but sold as part of other faux issues. Very few would need to be taking care of any covert electoral black ops... and it would be targeted very carefully as a final option and only where it would make a difference.

    Sure this is all along the border of CT stuff... allegations, dropped investigations, wishful thinking etc... but there is not just a Rove smoke machine going with flaky mostly legal moves, sometimes at least there is a real fire but the big money is also there to help  hide it too...

    Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

    by IreGyre on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 06:08:27 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  We need to be cautious (5+ / 0-)

      and aware and the GOP has gotta know we're watching.  

      But just look at the 2008 election.  How much would they have had to shave from NC to win it?  From Florida?  Virginia?  And if you're going to shave and risk all that that entails (i.e. getting caught), then why bother if you're not going to win the damn thing?  Whee!  We lost Florida by 2.5% instead of 5%!  That'll show 'em...

      Be aware, be vigilant, but look at the facts and don't be afraid.

      •  2000 and 2004... just close enough to work (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        but they know time and the demographics are against them... why else CU... and all the ALEC let legislation for suppression stuff ramping up after killing off ACORN ... and the push in 2010 to get control of max number of states in time for reapportionment?

         Because otherwise it would not be close enough to steal... and 2008 was just too much to overcome with the cumulative Bush years and the economy... If the crash had been delayed another year or so (probably their original hope) they might have had their "Maverick" reformer guy squeak in... war hero and all vs... Mrs. Bill (who could have foreseen Obama?)

        The truth is Nobody controls things completely or more than a little most of the time... but does not stop those who are used to having their way from trying to force things a bit. And previous successes embolden the crooked to try a bit more... but only as much as they think will work AND that they can get away with... And with the media tame or owned all the rest of their mostly legal  plans do have a plausible case for succeeding without having to go seriously fraudulent/criminal... but cheaters always hedge their bets... and if it includes the dirty, it will usually be just here or there and always deniable and make any accusers/whistle-blowers seem like crackpots... (or their plane crashes...).

        What would have been overstepping only becomes safe when a nation state is already too far down the Fascist path for any democratic fail-safes to catch more obvious election stealing and by then it is too late. We have a long way to go but why allow it to edge further in that direction? We are in the middle of an experiment to see if a kinder gentler unobtrusive 1984 is possible eventually... and fiddling the public's awareness, world view to allow or even cheer on anti democratic changes is part of that and that includes eroding oversight on elections and adding power over them by outsiders and insiders that bypass the protections and institutions involved up until now.

        Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

        by IreGyre on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 07:26:04 AM PDT

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        •  The fact remains (5+ / 0-)

          that you have no hard evidence to back up your (understandable) fears.  No one does.  This diary doesn't, and the thousand diaries written about this subject before are similarly long on concern and short on details.  

        •  And please stop with the plane crash thing. (4+ / 0-)

          It's utterly ridiculous.  Icing the wings isn't the way to do it.  How many FAA inspectors (AND their bosses, AND the overseers, AND the people who were on site at the crash, AND the people who reviewed the case) did they have to buy off?  How many people at the airport saw the evildoers... what?  Hose down the plane in mid-winter?  Or did the ninjas kill them, too?  Not to mention the fact that trying to kill someone in a small plane crash is really stupid... a lot of crashes in small planes are fully survivable.  If you want to eliminate someone, fake a robbery and just shoot the guy.    

        •  Kerry WAS trailing in nat'l polls by ca. 2% (0+ / 0-)

          Just saying.  Maybe there was thievery in Ohio; and for sure black-box voting is wrong.  But the polls in '04 were entirely consistent with a Kerry loss, certainly nationally, and IIRC the Ohio polls were too.

          The biggest red flag in '04 was the exit polling diverging from the tabulated results.  That has never been explained satisfactorily.  But again, Bush was pretty consistently ahead in the polling before the election, so it's just weird.  "Just weird", of course, isn't the same as a conspiracy.

          We have already seen evidence of the GOP stealing votes in '00; we know what THAT looked like.  Will GOP find other ways if they can? Sure.  But that doesn't mean they already have, since the data just don't support it.  The teabaggers winning in '10 was very likely a simple matter of turnout, just like in '94.  The idea of fraud in '08, per this post, is laughable.  And I don't buy that there was systemic, cloak-and-dagger fraud in '04, for the simple reason that more than one guy would have come forward by now.

          "Happiness is the only good. The place to be happy is here. The time to be happy is now. The way to be happy is to make others so." - Robert Ingersoll

          by dackmont on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 01:49:11 PM PDT

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          •  P.S. - forgot Ken Blackwell's (0+ / 0-)

            nasty voting machine stunts and the like in Ohio '04.  That was unquestionably an e.g. of electoral fraud, and may well have flipped it from Kerry.  Not at all unimaginable Kerry could have won EV and lost PV with a 2% margin.

            "Happiness is the only good. The place to be happy is here. The time to be happy is now. The way to be happy is to make others so." - Robert Ingersoll

            by dackmont on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 02:55:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  "who would believe it?" (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Quicklund, nota bene, Adam B, elmo

      I would believe it, if the evidence supported it.

      "Romney cheated because math!" doesn't cut it.

      Election protection: there's an app for that! -- and a toll-free hotline: 866-OUR-VOTE
      Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

      by HudsonValleyMark on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 07:01:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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