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View Diary: John McCain says the Iraq War was Colin Powell's fault (114 comments)

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  •  I was one who loved him before the UN speech ... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Olkate, FiredUpInCA, Ishmaelbychoice

    ... and I extended my disbelief over the 'evidence' longer than I probably should have because my respect for him was so great.  He was a Republican for whom I could have voted.  I would not have voted for him because of his race - just like I did not vote for Barack Obama for any other reason than his character and accomplishments.  But Powell threw all of that away in that speech.  How can I trust anything else that he says after that?

    My sympathy goes out to him but my enmity goes to those that put him in that position - Bush, Cheney, etc.

    Please do not be alarmed. We are about to engage... the nozzle.

    by Terrapin on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 05:15:05 PM PDT

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    •  I never would have voted for Powell (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NonnyO, Terrapin

      because he's a Republican; and it always irritated me that, before the U.N., he was the black figure many whites loved to say they would vote for.

      Yawn.

      I think people like Powell because he is a four-star general and he's black.  Everyone likes a black person they can point to as evidence of their "colorblindness."

      I never really liked Powell.  I always thought he was a weak Uncle Tom, and his endorsement of Obama doesn't really change that for me.

      I mean, if I had to choose a black Republican I could say I sort of liked ... it'd be Russel Honore.  I mean, at least that guy has some flavor.  At least he'll kick your fucking ass.

      Have you googled Romney today?

      by fou on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 05:29:59 PM PDT

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      •  I didn't say that I would vote for him because ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... he was a Republican - what I meant to say was that out of ALL Republicans, he was probably the only one I would have even considered voting for.  And his race had nothing to do with it except for the fact that he had given interviews in which he acknowledged that the experiences of racism led him to differ from his party.

        Michael Steele - now there is an Uncle Tom!  

        Please do not be alarmed. We are about to engage... the nozzle.

        by Terrapin on Sat Oct 27, 2012 at 09:09:35 AM PDT

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    •  Powell does not deserve your sympathy (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fou, native, NonnyO, Terrapin

      He's a grown man and has been for a long time. Bush, et al., did not put him in that position, he accepted it.

      Powell had to choose between two conflicting values. On the one hand, he could choose loyalty, good order, and discipline, as a member of his particular command structure.  I understand how difficult it would be for a military man to go against his orders.

      His other choice was the lives of his men. Two things were 100% compellingly clear at the time Powell gave his UN speech. First, that the justification for invading Iraq was fraudulent bullshit. Second, that American lives would be squandered on a fraudulent invasion. There is no question that Powell knew both of those things at the time he gave the speech.

      He made the wrong choice. He selfishly chose loyalty to a corrupt organization over the lives of thousands of American soldiers, and what turned out to be the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. He knew that his personal credibility was being used to justify the invasion. He knew that his personal credibility was being used to justify war crimes and crimes against humanity. But he did it anyway.

      Yes, it was a difficult choice. But at the critical moment, he chose selfishly and short-sightedly. He does not deserve our respect or sympathy.

      “No, Mitt, corporations are not people. People have hearts, they have kids, they get jobs, they get sick, they love, they cry, they dance, they live and they die. Learn the difference.”-- Elizabeth Warren

      by Positronicus on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 05:44:57 PM PDT

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      •  I hope it was a tough choice! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Positronicus

        That was his own soul he was selling, after all. Gotta get a good price!

        I have no sympathy for this war monger. It would have been great if he had turned out to be a better person, but he's not.

        How many divisions does OWS have?

        by Diebold Hacker on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 05:49:47 PM PDT

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      •  You think he knew? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Positronicus
        There is no question that Powell knew both of those things at the time he gave the speech.
        I have my doubts about that.  Perhaps I'm not remembering something?  Was there some piece of evidence of his knowledge that surfaced later?

        Have you googled Romney today?

        by fou on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 05:50:36 PM PDT

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        •  Yes, he knew. There was plenty of evidence. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          fou, NonnyO

          Check out the slides he shows, starting at 2:39 in this video.

          Powell says, "... mobile production facilities used to make chemical weapons."

          EVERY IMAGE IS COMPUTER GENERATED. THEY'RE ALL OBVIOUS FANTASIES.

          Sorry for the caps, but every single American over the age of about eight should be able to tell the difference between reality and a cartoon.

          Surely The Secretary of State of the Fucking United States of America should be able to tell the difference between reality and a cartoon. The CNN report wants you to believe that Powell was being played, but good fucking night, the guy was putting up CARTOONS and using them as a justification for war.

          CARTOONS do not pass the smell test. He knew.

          “No, Mitt, corporations are not people. People have hearts, they have kids, they get jobs, they get sick, they love, they cry, they dance, they live and they die. Learn the difference.”-- Elizabeth Warren

          by Positronicus on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 06:09:56 PM PDT

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          •  Yeah, but ... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Positronicus

            Aren't they simulations because real footage would be classified?

            Look, I'm not saying that I'm skeptical of the claim that he knew.  I'm just not aware of any evidence of it.

            I actually think it's worse if he didn't know.  To say it's appalling for a four-star general to be duped like that is a gross understatement.

            Having said that, McCain is one to talk.  How many of his Admiral daddy's planes did he crash until they took him prisoner?  I guess if I were John McCain, and my dad gave orders to bomb the city in which I was held prisoner, I would point a finger at Colin Powell too.

            Have you googled Romney today?

            by fou on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 06:16:56 PM PDT

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            •  Nope. Still fails the smell test. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              NonnyO

              Powell was presenting his evidence to the world to justify killing thousands of people. It has to be good, solid evidence. Not cartoons.

              Aren't they simulations because real footage would be classified?
              At this point, you're just making up excuses for him. The guy was an all the way grown up adult, a military professional, and the Secretary of State. His evidence would have been laughed out of a Jr. High debate club. Total fail.
              Look, I'm not saying that I'm skeptical of the claim that he knew.  I'm just not aware of any evidence of it.
              Look, when you are three years old, you don't know if dropping an egg on the floor will break the egg or not. You don't have enough experience. So you have to try it. And if Mom has to clean up a mess, at least she can honestly say you didn't know.

              But by the time you're nine, you should know enough about eggs and floors to know that if you drop the egg, you're gonna make a mess. You're past the age where you can plausibly make excuses. Any competent nine year old knows not to drop the egg.

              Yes, I am presuming a certain minimal level of competence on the part of Secretary Powell. But it is a very low level of competence indeed. Any college freshman should know the difference between reality and cartoons, between hard photographic evidence and anecdotal verbal reports by shady characters with sketchy reputations.

              For a guy at Powell's level to fuck up that badly required deliberate blindness to the obvious. Willful negligence. Yes, he knew.

              “No, Mitt, corporations are not people. People have hearts, they have kids, they get jobs, they get sick, they love, they cry, they dance, they live and they die. Learn the difference.”-- Elizabeth Warren

              by Positronicus on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 07:19:49 PM PDT

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              •  YES and NO: new information tells Powell's story (0+ / 0-)

                Seems many here haven't seen the more recent info divulged over the last year or two by Powell's chief of staff Lawrence Wilkerson.

                This is because it creeps out in bits around a deliberate media whitewash. Wilkerson has been clear and consistent in telling the Iraq WMD story first hand, often without much sympathy for Powell. His story is corroborated by other Bush era whistleblowers.

                Powell has indeed been very douschey about it, careful not to become a complete pariah in his party and IMO, to preserve his book/speaking fees and TV appearances.

                The story came out via Amy Goodman and Lawrence O'Donnell (before he signed his non-disclosure contract with the MSNBC) and books published by top officials in the CIA and the BND (Germany's CIA).

                In short, Powell was played. His continued opposition to the Iraq WMD claims was worn down, says Wilkerson. Cheney's OVP gamed the Secretary using agents he had (illegally) embedded in the CIA. A crucial 'dissent' made jointly by the CIA and BND impeached all of Curveball's charges in the first place.

                But this dissent was hidden from Powell (illegally), leading Powell to FINALLY call for an investigation last year in one little-seen interview. Top CIA officials like Tyler Drumheller say they were assured the Curveball claims were removed - until they heard them in Bush's State of the Union speech!

                Wilkerson resigned after he realized the second confession had been recanted, going public on PBS and putting Powell somewhat on the spot for not resigning as well.

                The other major piece was augmented Curveball's WMD claims with another "confession" made by a Libyan under torture in Cairo that was not made public.

                All links in the article...

      •  You are right, of course ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... Powell does not deserve my sympathy - he is a grown man.  Still, there is a sadness to his story that I cannot put into words.

        Please do not be alarmed. We are about to engage... the nozzle.

        by Terrapin on Sat Oct 27, 2012 at 09:11:01 AM PDT

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