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View Diary: [UPDATE] The Bigger Picture: Forget the Religious Right. Talk about the Average Joe. (203 comments)

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  •  Well, here's where we have a handy little bit (4.00)
    of confluence. With the current set of judicial nominees, you get get two, two, two mints in one!--social conservatives and shills for corporate America. So how do we know which is exerting the most influence?

    Look at who is pulling the Republican strings right now on the Senate floor. Which audience is Frist playing to? That he's in the backpocket of big money isn't in question at all. And try to convince the American populace that's the case, they'll say, "Yeah, so? Who isn't?"

    No, much, much scarier to the American public is the American Taliban.

    •  confluence of fluids? (4.00)
      Eeewww - talking about Bob and Joementum?

      And when I say Frist I mean Dobson.

      by Armando on Wed May 18, 2005 at 02:22:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  BTW (4.00)
      what's the retsin in the current system?  

      And when I say Frist I mean Dobson.

      by Armando on Wed May 18, 2005 at 02:24:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My point is a larger context. (none)
      I note in the diary that this may or may not prove to be an effective strategy on this issue.

      But I think we are failing as a party to develop some coherent message that covers ALL of the egregious shit these thugs have been pulling since Bush took office.

      Kerry's campaign certainly was lacking in regards to a theme and my guess is that if we don't develop a strong story line for the mid-terms, we'll take it on the chin again (or at least fail to make gains).

      •  You never laugh at my jokes (4.00)
        The Certs thing was just for you.

        Maybe, maybe in the larger context you are right. But it's kind of hard to argue that the Democrats don't benefit from big business as well, so I think we need to tread pretty carefully there.

        •  I was laughing on the inside. (4.00)
          Anyway, I would suggest that if we have to be afraid to make the points outlined in my post, then we are truly fucked as a nation.

          I hate Ralph Nader, but that asshole may have been right... there is only one political party in the United States -- the CASH party.

          I'm gonna' go curl up in a corner now.

          •  You're absolutely right (none)
            about the reality of the situation. I just think you're wrong about the politics. And I actually do think that the judiciary battle is primarily about social conservatism. They've got the money folks covered in the legislative branch.
            •  I don't know... (4.00)
              Thr rich and the more abusive corporate plutocrats can never have enough... money, power, protection, insurance.

              Look at the judicial records of Brown or Owens.  Sure, they're conservative on social issues, but they also are pro-business... to the extreme.

              I'm still laughing on the inside.

              •  Yup, two mints in one (4.00)
                Handy, that, isn't it? Chicken or egg? Money or God? I'm just saying that little things like pointing out the fact that these freaks not only want to get rid of abortion but also want to take our fucking birth control away from us might be a little more effeective in waking Josephine SUV the fuck up.
                •  I say you wake josephine up (4.00)
                  when she recognizes she can't afford to put gas in, buy insurance for, or make the payment on her SUV because while the cost of living continues to rise, most peoples salaries are not.

                  Prisoner of hope.

                  by comeon on Wed May 18, 2005 at 02:47:28 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  That's it (4.00)
                  Most women never consider the possibility that they might someday be thankful for safe and legal abortion -- not until that pregnancy test lights up like a Christmas tree.  

                  Since 2003, the Texas Lege has not just chipped away at the right to abortion in this state; they've taken a meat ax to it.  We who struggle to continue providing abortion care here have been appalled that, instead of resenting this multi-pronged assault on their freedom, most women have meekly accepted it as the price they have to pay.  

                  Before you can have an appointment, you have to listen to lying BS about abortion and breast cancer.

                  "OK, that's fine."

                  No, you can't come tomorrow. I'm sorry that you'll have to take off another day from work, but the state has imposed a 24-hour waiting period.

                  "That's all right."

                  There's a state regulation that you can't have an abortion unless you provide us with a copy of your driver's license, and the state can have that information at any time.

                  "Oh, sure, OK."

                  I know your daughter's only 13, but she's two days over the 16-week limit, so we won't be able to provide an abortion for her.

                  "Well, we don't have enough money to out of state and pay $1,500, so she'll just have to have it, then."

                  But women went ballistic over Frank Corte's "pharmacists' rights" bill that threatened their access to birth control. I almost wish the House had let the damned thing out of committee, just to keep women focused on what's being done to them.

                  Because while they just "know" they'll never need to have an abortion, they really do believe that they have an inalienable right to birth control that no one has the right to take away.

                  So push Josephine with that and push her hard.

              •  Absolutly (none)
                Remember, the judiciary makes decisions regarding money everyday, every time someone tries to sue a company for wrongfull termination, or violation of workers rights, or gobbeling up their pensions. Corporate America has a huge vested interest in the judiciary.

                Prisoner of hope.

                by comeon on Wed May 18, 2005 at 02:46:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  True - Our Taliban Is Scary (none)
      Folks like me, and my circle of DemFriends, all fear the social conservatives mission.

      But the vote totals from 2004 demonstrated something really scary - the GOP found, through it's fundy reserves and increased support among Catholics, a huge increase in voters over 2000. (Florida county-by-county results will knock your eyeballs out.)

      There are two missions involved here. The more immediate is stopping the Frist/Rove/Dobson agenda, which is fully dressed as social conservatism. But if these judges weren't solid-to-the-core corporatists, they wouldn't have been nominated in the first place.

      The more important issue - yeah, hard to back up and see a bigger picture - is elective politics down the road. For the Democrats to win, they've got to splinter the GOP reserves - those spare voters that were motivated thru church networking - by winning some votes, and getting others back to sitting out the election. To accomplish that, the worst thing the Dems could do would be to declare total war on the religious right. Bob's right: the key to driving a wedge among the rank and file social conservatives it to draw their focus elsewhere. Nothing can do that as well as shining a bright light on corporate shenanigans (unless they catch Dubya in flagrante delicto with Jeff Gannon).

      •  Wrong (none)
           There's more votes available for Democrats from people who are rightish on issues like gun control but who are passionate about personal liberty and can't stand fundamentalists, than there are from members of the "Religious Right" cults.  Those people are core Republicans.  You can maybe depress their turnout, but you can't get them to vote Democratic.  If you want to win more votes, look for the demographic of Bush voters who went for Kerry in '04 and try to expand on that.

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