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View Diary: Breaking: Something Incredible is Happening in Kuwait (154 comments)

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  •  Proof: Travel advisories to the countries above (0+ / 0-)

    the three countries that I mentioned. i admit calling their new leaders "despots" was flippant but these countries are not peaceful happy places even years after their despots have been removed. I therefore keep a wait-and-see attitude towards the overthrow of the rulers of Kwait.

    IRAQ
    http://travel.state.gov/...

    LIBYA
    http://travel.state.gov/...

    EGYPT
    http://travel.state.gov/...

    You will find some pretty "deep analysis" in these links from the US State Department. Much more than "bumps in the road." Tell me if, after you read these advisories you would want to travel there and bring any of your family with you.

    Thank you for your responses.

    ❧To thine ownself be true

    by Agathena on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 06:03:55 AM PST

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    •  The united states was not a peaceful and happy (0+ / 0-)

      place for about a century after our revolution, and even then there were still problems.

      It took about two centuries for us to clamp down on political violence.

      Yet you expect these countries to do in a fortnight what even America could not?

      An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

      by OllieGarkey on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 07:23:53 AM PST

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      •  There's no comparison, your example is (0+ / 0-)

        is anachronistic.

        It's too early to cheer for Kuwait and I advise caution.

        ❧To thine ownself be true

        by Agathena on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 07:47:36 AM PST

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        •  Anachronistic? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dclawyer06

          Every time you bring down the government, in almost every case, the result is chaos.

          The same was true during the post-soviet eastern bloc. The same was true of Africa after colonialism, and of India.

          This isn't Anachronistic, this is what always happened.

          Find me a counterexample if you disagree. I'd love to see it.

          An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

          by OllieGarkey on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:27:16 AM PST

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          •  I'm not sure what you're arguing... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            OllieGarkey

            Short-term, sure there can be chaos, but long-term, democracy is always better for the local population, and the world at large.

            As for counter-examples... there are a number of post-USSR eastern bloc countries that did not fall into chaos after the fall of the USSR. In fact, most of them made the transition pretty well.

            Freedom isn't free. So quit whining and pay your taxes.

            by walk2live on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:45:56 AM PST

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            •  Yes, but in a lot of places there were problems, (0+ / 0-)

              military equipment ended up getting into hands it shouldn't have gotten into, there was an illegal arms trade bonanza, and it was still a good thing for humanity that the soviet union went away.

              Chaos happens sometimes. But it's much, much better than dictatorship.

              And chaos happened here. There was the whisky rebellion. Then 1812, then nat turner, then bleeding kansas, then the civil war, then the KKK, then the robber barons and the labor wars, then the Kennedies.

              There's still abortion clinics being blown up, there's still Dr. Tillers.

              But democracy, even with all of that chaos, is better than a dictatorship where such things couldn't happen because the state monitors everyone all the time.

              That's my point.

              We're not that different from the Kuwaitis and the folks in the middle east. That's my point.

              An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

              by OllieGarkey on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 02:14:35 PM PST

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          •  Comparing aftermath of the so-called Arab Spring (0+ / 0-)

            with the aftermath of the American Revolution is anachronistic.

            bye

            ❧To thine ownself be true

            by Agathena on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 12:48:04 PM PST

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    •  There are dangerous places all over the world (0+ / 0-)

      These three (especially Libya and Iraq) are much better now than they were previously. Would have have prefered to visit Libya when Khadaffi was in power? or Iraq when Saddam was in power? Are you kidding me?

      I'm not expecting that a country will turn into Disneyland overnight just because the people threw out the old depsots. But, measuring the success of a revolution by "whether an American can travel there safely" is a lousy (and self-righteous) way to measure these things.

      As for Egypt, while travel was probably safer there under Mubarak, I think in the long-term, not only will Egypt be better-off with their current course, it will be a safer place as well. And certainly, the long-term future for ordinary Egyptians is much brighter now than it was 3 years ago.

      This idea that any country is better-off with an oppressive autocrat is disgusting. It reeks of impreialism. I'm far less concerned with where I can travel, and much more concerned with the long-term freedom & happiness of the local populations. It's their country, not mine. Provided the people truly hold the reigns of power, I'm confident their future will be bright.

      Freedom isn't free. So quit whining and pay your taxes.

      by walk2live on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:39:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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