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View Diary: Golden results in the Golden State: Democrats dominate California (368 comments)

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  •  No, I haven't. (3+ / 0-)

    Looks interesting.

    "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

    by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 07:31:07 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Shane is full of BS. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dkosdan

      He isn't responding to your point, which was about alternatives. Repeating the true fact that residential property taxes were going up at a crazy rate doesn't make Prop 13 "necessary" ... there was a sane alternative on the 1978 ballot that was defeated by the corporate bankrolls.

      •  yeah, I think that was Prop 8 (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dkosdan

        but it didn't actually achieve much on its own, if I read it correctly. It allowed the legislature to come up with a solution involving higher taxes on commercial property and lower taxes on residential property.

        "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

        by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 09:33:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The legislature ALREADY HAD!! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Boy Howdy

          The entire Howard Jarvis campaign against Prop 8 consisted of the claim that it didn't do anything. But the legislature had already passed the legislation; it just needed Prop 8 to make split tax rates constitutional. I don't have to read it, I lived it and campaigned for it.

      •  You seem pretty angry (0+ / 0-)

        What's that all about? Facts got you down on this issue?

        "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

        by Shane Hensinger on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 09:46:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I stated the facts, you just do ad hominem. (0+ / 0-)

          The fact is that the 1978 Prop 8 addressed that residential tax rate problem; Prop 13 was not "necessitated". Prop 13 exploited the problem of homeowners and put the fate of CA in the hands of a handful of right wing ideologues.

          •  Prop 8 was not enacted, Prop 13 was (0+ / 0-)

            Therefore we deal with the reality of the situation - not discuss the possibilities of what could have been under Prop 8. This isn't Alice in Wonderland.

            Polls do not show even 1/3 support for repealing Prop 13. And ideological scaremongering and telling voters they're selfish aren't going to convince anyone.

            "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

            by Shane Hensinger on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 09:56:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  An important fact is that prop 13 has kept Cal. (0+ / 0-)

          from creating a fair and sensible property tax system. And it began the destruction of California's once superb educational system.

          The californians who moved to Oregon in the 80s brought their property tax and super majority for tax increase ideas with them. Now our schools, public lands, parks and infrastructure are degraded and our superb land use laws are under constant assault. Our legislature is in constant gridlock These super majority laws make it possible for conservatives to always get what they want on taxes regardless of what a majority of the states citizens might want.

          Prop 13 and laws like it, have  been a cancer to citizens ability to govern and tax themselves as they deem the times and situation require. It does not allow California, or any state idiot enough to copy California, to modernize tax codes to changing times, citizens priorities, or emergencies.

          Prop 13 is the 1% and cranky cheapskate wingers stealing democracy and fucking the future for everyone else.

           

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