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View Diary: Congratulations unqualifying Obama supporters! (133 comments)

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  •  because more often than not (8+ / 0-)

    support for nader in 2000 was premised on their being no difference between gore and bush.

    voters who fell for that codswallop most certainly are to blame.

    gore isn't an entertainer.  not all presidents are telegenic like obama.  fewer still are as brilliantly charismatic as clinton.  but he was running for the job of president, not late night teevee host.  

    and faulting him for his campaign when the media wouldn't give him a break? puhleeze!

    if people couldn't see the vast differences between gore and bush, then i just don't know what to say.

    Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

    by Cedwyn on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:45:37 AM PST

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    •  Don't even bother (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brian A, Cedwyn, raina, TFinSF, sviscusi

      with people who think that they're fighting for progressive values by picking petty fights on the internet.  

    •  If Gore and the Dems had done a better job (5+ / 0-)

      they would have won, Nader or no, Supreme Court or no.

      Somehow this is too painful for people around here to accept.

      I believe our job here is to make the Democratic Party good enough so that it can win elections like that.

      An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

      by mightymouse on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:50:46 AM PST

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      •  Right. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mightymouse

        So Gore should have known that every comment would be stretched and distorted into a way to ridicule and diminish him.  

        Yeah, he should have talked about the environment and other things that really animate him.

        There is no doubt that a media feeding frenzy took the Gore campaign by surprise.  Similar to Obama in the first debate, they didn't realize the paradigm had changed to such a degree that running against someone based on reality was naive and a sure way to crash and burn.

        Lieberman didn't help, but people didn't look at him at the time as anything but a democrat with strong credentials.

        There is a lot of blame to go around.  

        Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek. Barack Obama

        by delphine on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:53:40 AM PST

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        •  you can always blame the media, Nader, the voters (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cassiodorus, priceman, triv33

          but that doesn't win.

          And it takes the focus off the campaign, the one thing the party really has responsibility for. It comes off as finger-pointing by insiders.

          If the Gore campaign really didn't realize that running against someone based on reality alone was a losing strategy in the US media environment of the time, then they made a gigantic mistake. Serious political malfeasance. And let's don't get into Obama. If they still thought that way now, in 2012 ... words fail. (I don't believe they did, btw - my impression is Obama didn't feel well during the first debate, and every excuse offered later was merely to obscure that.)

          I do believe a better run party and more focused campaigns can win despite the lousy media, despite inattentive voters, and despite Mr. Nader. And that's what we should focus on here.

          An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

          by mightymouse on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 09:18:22 AM PST

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          •  I didn't mention Nader (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cedwyn

            in my comment.  

            Gore was pretty much the first democrat to run for president against Karl Rove.  He was completely blindsided and the media was joyfully complicit (manipulated).

            Gore picked Lieberman - bad move.

            I don't care that he seemed stiff, blah blah, although as I said, if he'd been discussing climate he would have been quite animated.

            The campaign made mistakes.  Plenty of blame to go around.  Nowhere in my comment did I mention Nader.

            Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek. Barack Obama

            by delphine on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 11:56:48 AM PST

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    •  Campaign's job is to reach the voters (6+ / 0-)

      as they actually are.

      You can whine about people not seeing the difference betw Bush and Gore. Maybe a lot of the voters are dumb. But the Democrats still have to win them over.

      Going on about Nader is an excuse to avoid doing what really needs to be done.

      An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

      by mightymouse on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:52:36 AM PST

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    •  Be careful what you wish for... (5+ / 0-)

      since President Gore might've led in the fullness of time to President Lieberman, war with Iran, and the end of the world as we know it.

      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

      by PhilJD on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:56:06 AM PST

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