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View Diary: The First Moment in All of Time Humans Voted In Marriage Equality. (10 comments)

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  •  Uh, that needs to be qualified big time. (0+ / 0-)

    Numerous churches, like Quakers, "voted in" marriage equality. Have you researched other nations?

    I think you need to define some terms here.

    "I was a big supporter of waterboarding" - Dick Cheney 2/14/10

    by Bob Love on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 05:34:49 PM PST

    •  Nope, the diarist is right. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, bythesea, slksfca, sfbob, terrypinder

      Whatever individual churches have done within their own congregation, we've never legalized marriage via the vote before.  Only through courts and legislatures.

      (You could make the case that the latter is vote-by-proxy, but that's still by-proxy.)

      Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

      by pico on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 05:40:52 PM PST

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      •  The title doesn't say "legalized marriage" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Quibble or not, numerous congregations have literally "voted in marriage equality" within their church, meaning that gay marriages would have the same standing within the church as straight ones.  Thus the title needs to be particularized to be truly accurate.

        Moreover, the status of these votes still has to be squared with DOMA, or (let's hope) DOMA needs to be tossed out or repealed, before these votes have anything but provisional legality.

        Finally, to say that "marriage equality" within some individual religious denominations is beside the point while "marriage equality" within some individual states is valid regardless of the larger national context is inconsistent.

        Moreover, I see nothing in this brief diary to indicate that a complete historical review has been made of the issue. Right now, it stands as a claim, but I'd like some actual corroboration. "All Of Time" is a rather large chunk, and "Humans" covers a lot of territory. I don't think anyone can reasonably use either of these terms in this context with any credibility without demonstrating a thorough knowledge of all human cultures.

        I know, these votes are a big thing, but this title is simply happy hyperbole as stated.

        A less grandiose but more truthful statement would be:

        The First Time Americans Voted In Marriage Equality At the State Level.

        "I was a big supporter of waterboarding" - Dick Cheney 2/14/10

        by Bob Love on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:50:25 PM PST

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        •  Agree with the hyperbole but (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skrekk, 207wickedgood, Bob Love

          I'm still really happy for all of my fellow Mainers who will finally be able to be legally married if they so choose.

          I'm also hopeful this vote will finally put an end to the 20-year string of referendum questions we've had regarding LGBT rights.  It has been a costly, wearisome, and harmful process for everyone in our state.  Holding popular votes on the civil rights of minorities just sucks.

          Congrats to the folks at Mainers United for once again running a classy, intelligent, and superbly organized campaign.  This time, the right side won!

        •  No. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, sfbob, terrypinder

          When people use the word "voting" on this site, they don't have to qualify that they're talking about voting as a civic act.   That's a spectacularly stupid demand to make otherwise.  You're seriously asking someone on a political site to make sure his readers know that "voting" refers to something legal and not something religious.  Seriously.

          By the time you get to "complete historical review", you're just being an ass about it.   Popular government only existed in fits and starts until the modern era.  Though there are sporadic same-sex marriages throughout history, marriage equality as a legal category wasn't codified into law anywhere and at any time until 2001.  Every single country and self-governing entity that has legalized same-sex marriage has done so through the courts or through legislatures.   It's not exactly a giant list, and the basic facts are pretty well known to anyone who follows this issue at all.   Literally the only possible counterexample is whether some Spanish localities voted on the purely symbolic ability of couples to "marry", which, again, was not a legal action.

          I'd be much less abrasive about this if you hadn't thrown in this "happy hyberbole" b.s.

          Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

          by pico on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:48:46 PM PST

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