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View Diary: BREAKING: Sean Hannity "Evolves" Comes Out For "Pathway To Citizenship" For Undocumented Immigrants (136 comments)

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  •  And Why Is The Democratic Party (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gooserock

    Going to grant illegal immigrants 'a path to citizenship'?

    Ohh, it must be because dumping subsidized U.S. corn on the Mexican market, driving entire villages of uneducated, unskilled Mexican citizens north in search of work was a great policy move and overall was beneficial to the American worker and the American citizenry.

    I fully understand that having 10% of all individuals born in Mexico now living in the U.S. is a barn busting great thing for the U.S., I'm just too stupid to yet fully grasp why.

    And after you have granted everybody currently in the U.S. legal status once or twice, how do you then pander to this group?

    I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

    by superscalar on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:14:18 PM PST

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    •  So much impotent hate can't be healthy. n/t (0+ / 0-)
      •  Does It Sound Like Hate? (0+ / 0-)

        I call it truth, but do feel free to call it what you want as long as you don't call it untrue because then you would have to ... you know ... really put your thinking cap on.

        I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

        by superscalar on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:21:44 PM PST

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        •  It's irrelevant and no longer worth engaging. n/t (0+ / 0-)
        •  Well, you're right, about the corn, and bad effect (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          svboston

          of Nafta. That hasn't been fixed yet.
          However, one reason Hispanics broke so strongly against Romney is that they know who he is. They have centuries of unbroken income inequality and a small minority extracting the wealth from the country and leaving people as peasants.
          That's one reason they're up here.
          I think there's a solution that can allow everyone to retain their dignity, but American workers need to stand up for their interests without attacking Mexican/Latino workers.
          We should pro-actively seek a solution that gives workers and the working class in Mexico more power, so they have less incentive to move north.

          I was at Walmart the other day and I noticed they're selling international money transfers now. So hispanic workers can go to Walmart on Friday instead of Orlando Valuti to send their untaxed dollars back to Mexico.

          I love my hispanic neighbors, and to a certain degree, I have no problem with more workers coming north. However, it's been exploited by employers. In the mid "aughts" the flood of hispanic workers caused the price for framing a house to drop precipitously, which helped drive domestic workers and contractors like me out of the business.
          One thing that should be recognized, the tragedy of Mexico and the drug cartels, is a direct result of the influence of Wall Street and the Romneys. Mexico is going to have to find some way to resolve that problem, which is probably going to be extremely painful in Mexico, before they're going to have the capacity to deal with their own economy.

          You can't make this stuff up.

          by David54 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:56:59 PM PST

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          •  Yet Barack Obama Hasn't Used The Term 'NAFTA' (0+ / 0-)

            That hasn't been fixed yet.

            In public since 2008. How many times has Barack Obama used the phrase 'comprehensive immigration reform'.

            Now, I am not a constitutional scholar, I am not a lawyer, and I don't have brigades of advisors hovering on my every word.

            I can make the connection between illegal immigration and NAFTA, yet Barack Obama either can't or doesn't want to publicly.

            Either way, what does that tell you about Barack Obama?

            I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

            by superscalar on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:04:08 PM PST

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            •  Where are the starving Canadians? (0+ / 0-)

              We have free trade with Canada so millions of Canadians in the US should be wiring loonies back to their starving families in Manitoba, right?

              Canada's government is one of the most honest on earth.

              How does that compare to Mexico's?

            •  He was busy being re-elected. Sorry, but it's (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ian Reifowitz

              really important to be elected if you want to have an influence on the direction of the country.

              We had a fullblown national debate on health care in this country. People became much more involved and more informed, and legislation was crafted and passed.
              There was a monumental effort to stall the process, so it took a long time.
              Ditto financial reform. As a result, we ran out of time for passage of the climate/energy/ jobs bill in the Senate before the 2010 elections.
              Then we lost the House and our "window of opportunity" closed significantly.
              As did that, of course, for immigration reform.
              It's not like Obama has a magic "lefty" wand to "poof" wave progressive legislation into existence.

              You can't make this stuff up.

              by David54 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:28:04 PM PST

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              •  Please Re Read The Entirety Of My Comment (0+ / 0-)

                It's not like Obama has a magic "lefty" wand to "poof" wave progressive legislation into existence

                And find the word 'legislation'. My comment addresses itself to the fact that Barack Obama has not used the word 'NAFTA' in public that I can find since he won his debate with Hilary Clinton in 2008 by saying she was for NAFTA and he was going to 'renegotiate it'. And, as I wrote in a letter to Diane Feinstein, I'm pretty sure I understand what the term 'information superhighway' means a lot better than most people.

                The You Tube video of this debate is part of this diary.

                And Barack Obama has taken many occasions to talk about 'comprehensive immigration reform' and how we should all be 'playing by the same rules'.

                Yet not one speech where the President of the United States, 11 dimensional chess playing super hero that he is, said 'illegal immigration' and 'NAFTA', or 'comprehensive immigration reform' and 'NAFTA' in the same sentence ... even in the same speech ... at all?

                wave progressive legislation into existence

                By the way, the President of the United States doesn't 'wave progressive legislation into existence', or 'any legislation into existence' ... but then you couldn't get a U.S. visa with a work permit and not undergo a personal interview before July 15, 2012 ... so ... who knows.

                I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

                by superscalar on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:47:12 PM PST

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                •  That's my point, is that he can't rework treaties (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Ian Reifowitz

                  without the Senate.  He can work around the edges administratively, but the fact is that the fact of his re-election bears out the fact that he knew what he was doing. We can Monday-morning quarterback him till hell freezes over, but the fact is he won with a pretty impressive and unprecedentedly well financed army arrayed against him.

                  You can't make this stuff up.

                  by David54 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 05:58:19 AM PST

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            •  ps There's a difference between the corn policy (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ian Reifowitz

              which flowed from Nafta and the Housing Bubble/ Bush open door policy which drove the illegal immigration policy of those years.

              You can't make this stuff up.

              by David54 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:33:55 PM PST

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              •  The Real Catalyst For Illegal Immigration (0+ / 0-)

                In my humble opinion began shortly after the 1986 IRCA when both political parties realized that the bargain they had made was really not in either their political or financial interests.

                One more time. Illegal immigration is about power and money. Lots of power and lots of money.

                I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

                by superscalar on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 08:56:17 PM PST

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                •  You could say that about everything that happens (0+ / 0-)

                  in Washington. You may be right about the starting point of the problem, but it's a fact that the housing boom would not have happened without immigrant labor because there was not enough domestic workers. It's possible that's because Texas etc. were right to work states and there wasn't a strong trades union to get inner city kids into the industry and into the cities and neighborhoods where the houses were going up. There are an abundance of "What if's".
                  As it was, entrepeneurship and laissez faire was the rule of the day and there wasn't a backlash until the tide became too great, and illegal immigrants went from being labor to subcontractors and controlling whole swaths of the expansion. At the same time, hispanics started overwhelming school districts and public health systems, and moving into more northern states where there was a demand for cheaper labor. Basically, Bush could have made reforms and demanded reforms in Mexico and Latin America which would have slowed northward migration and given them more opportunity where they lived. The consolidation of right wing power south of Mexico plays into this whole thing, too.

                  You can't make this stuff up.

                  by David54 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 05:47:42 AM PST

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    •  We Can't Deport 2 Ohiofulls of Population. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ian Reifowitz, TomP, nota bene

      You're not wrong about the corn and trade issues but the people are here now.

      We have to deal with a problem we can actually address.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:30:34 PM PST

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      •  Were You Around In 1986? (0+ / 0-)

        The same statements have been made over the past ten years or so that were made in 1986. As I have stated before, go ahead, grant everybody in the U.S. illegally legal status, but there will be a point at which I will leave the Democratic Party and will simply respond to every Democrat who whines and moans about declining wages and the destruction of the middle class with a hearty 'please shut the fuck up'.

        Again, I invite you or anybody to tell me how passing what will eventually be something which looks like S 2611 is 'comprehensive', how it really addresses anything beyond 'immigration' (with the exception that it massively increase current levels of immigration and will serve to make current chain migration worse), or how it 'reforms' anything (given that your definition of 'reform' is something beyond 'grant legal status to the 12 million').

        Nobody's explained to me how S 2611 comprised 'comprehensive immigration reform'. I'm pretty sure it's because they can't.

        And I still ask the question, what do you do with that first person who crosses the border illegally after any amnesty? Nobody seems to be able to answer this question either.

        I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

        by superscalar on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 06:40:39 PM PST

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    •  These comments do not reflect hate. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Utahrd

      These are difficult questions that have to be dealt with.

    •  More Mexicans live in cities (0+ / 0-)

      So how is more expensive corn going to help people that live in the DF, Monterrey and Guadalajara?

      The US has (had?) programs to help US workers displaced by NAFTA.

      If the crooks that run Mexico's government weren't busy stealing everything not nailed down; they could help Mexican farmers.  You can't grow mangoes or coffee in Iowa.  

      The Mexican government could have used their oil money to help farmers grow new crops.  Or they could have stolen it and sent it to their Cayman Islands bank account.

      •  Look At When The Migration To The Cities Started (0+ / 0-)

        More Mexicans live in cities

        How US Policies Fueled Mexico's Great Migration January 4, 2012

        Roberto Ortega tried to make a living slaughtering pigs in Veracruz, Mexico. “In my town, Las Choapas, after I killed a pig, I would cut it up to sell the meat,” he recalls. But in the late 1990s, after the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) opened up Mexican markets to massive pork imports from US companies like Smithfield Foods, Ortega and other small-scale butchers in Mexico were devastated by the drop in prices. “Whatever I could do to make money, I did,” Ortega explains. “But I could never make enough for us to survive.” In 1999 he came to the United States, where he again slaughtered pigs for a living. This time, though, he did it as a worker in the world’s largest pork slaughterhouse, in Tar Heel, North Carolina.

        His new employer? Smithfield—the same company whose imports helped to drive small butchers like him out of business in Mexico.

        Imported pork had a dramatic effect on Mexican jobs. “We lost 4,000 pig farms,” Ramírez estimates, based on reports received by the confederation from its members. “On Mexican farms, each 100 animals produce five jobs, so we lost 20,000 farm jobs directly from imports. Counting the five indirect jobs dependent on each direct job, we lost over 120,000 jobs in total."

        Not addressing you directly so much as the party generally, but that said -- Limbaugh is an idiot, but he is right about one thing -- to paraphrase the fat tub of shit "Democrats want to be judged based upon how smart they think their polices are, not by the result(s) those policies create."

        I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

        by superscalar on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:31:39 PM PST

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        •  Expensive carnitas = Prosperity? (0+ / 0-)

          So they way to help poor people in Mexico City, Monterrey and Guadalajara is to make carbohydrates AND protein more expensive?

          So in other words, the way to help Mexico's poor is to make sure they have to buy their food from their version of Whole Foods?

      •  By The Way (0+ / 0-)

        The Mexican government could have used their oil money to help farmers grow new crops

        On this point we completely agree, and I think that once the last drop is squeezed out of the Cantarell field you will find Barack Obama much more willing to use the term 'NAFTA'.

        I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

        by superscalar on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 07:33:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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